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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: To be fair, public officials put a lot of work into a lot of issues. The broad Estimate covers the man-hours and the work that people put into a whole range of issues.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: No, I would not accept that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I have not involved myself in the investigation.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: How does the Deputy know that there is not one?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Could the Deputy repeat that? Would I challenge them?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: That is an issue that we would have to consider at the time. There is the whole history and journey of relations between Ireland and Britain. The British and Irish Governments have avoided that type of litigation or legal process in modern times. Let us be clear, the relationship between the two Governments has been transformed over the past 30 years. That is a very good thing. We have...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I want to make the point that we believe that this is the correct route right now. We believe that it would be very damaging indeed if the British Government were to pursue this. There is, as the Deputy knows, a mechanism in the agreement and in the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, BIIGC. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, has engaged in that process and on that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I have not interfered with the conduct of this or with the manner by which the senior official within the Department is approaching it. It is also dealing with the management of documents for Government meetings and with the protection of the confidentiality. My understanding, however, is that the process has not been completed. Obviously, we endeavour to bring that to a conclusion.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: On the Deputy's overall point, since Brexit, the British Government has had wider issues that I think are impacting on its perspectives on Northern Ireland. We can compare this with previous British governments, for example, the governments led by Tony Blair or John Major. The relationship between John Major's government and Albert Reynolds's Government was key to the Downing Street...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: The Deputy has made a fair point. This British Government seems to be taking more of a union stance - it is concerned about Scotland - and it is manifesting itself in many ways. We need to pivot again and we need to-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Not only do we need to strengthen our message, but the British-Irish joint approach to the issues of the Good Friday Agreement in the North must be repositioned and the British Government needs to move away from what I detect to be a degree of unilateralism regarding legacy, protocols and so on.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I take the Deputy's point on a number of fronts. The DUP represents a very important constituency. It represents people of particular views in Northern Ireland. That needs to be respected as we must respect the UUP and the views it represents. Notwithstanding that we might disagree with some of the policies the parties might present, we need to respect that they have electoral mandates. ...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Is the Deputy asking about all-island corporation tax?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Is the Deputy saying the Northern Ireland Executive is ready to go with it?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I understand it has had that capacity for quite a number of years, but I do not think it has moved within the Executive. There are challenges with movement over how to make up the revenue foregone. I will check with the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, to see if there have been any discussions between the two Departments of Finance and the two Ministers in respect of corporation tax....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I deliberately do not use the word "investigation"; I consistently use the word "evaluation" into how we did as a country in dealing with Covid-19. That means taking on board all the issues the Deputy has outlined. We need to learn how we have managed Covid-19 and whether we could have done it better. What lessons can be learned from our experience over the past two years in dealing with a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Some of what the Deputy has said is valid but we could equally say that we must always balance the undoubted impacts of lockdowns against what would happen if we did not lock down. To me, the fundamental objective was always to save lives and people from becoming severely ill. We also wanted to protect our health services from being overwhelmed. The mortality question is important, and as...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Wage increases are for the entire society and wages have been increasing. The Deputy's point is about a specific post and a position of Secretary General in the Department of Health. When I was questioned, I made the point that given my experience in health, there is merit in the Secretary General position in the Department of Health having a higher salary than other Secretary General...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Regarding the case of Ellie that you raised, I do not know who said that to the parent.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: No one should ever say that to the parent of a child. That is my point. That is wrong. No professional should say it and no official should say it because they never know the potential of a child. Parents know best, not professionals. I do not decry professionals. Sometimes even the best of professionals should listen, listen and listen. They should listen to the patient and listen to...

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