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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Has Mr. Purcell received any reports of that happening?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I am talking about refusing to give, for example, a lunch.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I might bring that to Mr. Purcell separately from this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes. In the past few weeks I have been getting quite a few.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I will bring that to the Secretary General separately after this meeting. On the cost of the centres, Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan got a very good breakdown of the contracts for each centre and how much they cost. Is there individual scrutiny of each contract? There seems to be variation in what is being paid to different centres - even to ones with the same number of people.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: What would give rise to a difference of €50,000 or €100,000 between two centres with the same number of people?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: If, for example, one centre had families it might have different costs to one that did not. Is it that kind of thing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: How does a contractor come to win a contract to provide services?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Is it tendered publicly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: The Chairman has stated we hope to move to chapter 15 at noon. Does he intend to come back to the general Vote after that? How long are we planning to spend on chapter 15?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: That is fine. I am wondering at what time we hope to come back to the general Vote.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I wanted to spend some time on the issue of asylum seekers, if possible, but I do not want to interfere with chapter 15. Should I wait until after the chapter has been discussed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I will begin and the Chairman may ask me to conclude when he needs me to do so. I thank Mr. Purcell and everyone else for coming. I return to the issue of asylum seekers by asking a general question. Is the title "asylum seeker" a de facto status given to someone or is it only given to a person once he or she has been processed through the system?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Are there persons who are removed before they get as far as applying for asylum? I am looking at a reply to a parliamentary question and curious about the term "persons who are refused leave to land and are removed from the State". What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: However, they are on our territory. It is described as "refused leave to land". Does this mean they are at the airport without papers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: On the ones turned around, there are approximately 2,500 persons a year who are refused leave to land and removed from the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Are they entitled to apply for asylum?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: They come here with no papers, decide not to apply for asylum and are just shipped back again. Where do they stay before they are removed from the State?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: For how long might they be detained?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Is that within 24 hours?

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