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Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I have no interest in Mr. Ó Foghlú's views on Dr. Love. I want to know about the issues in the email and the concerns Dr. Love raised.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: What are the difficulties and challenges from Mr. Ó Foghlú's perspective?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Ó Foghlú is the Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills, which has responsibility for overall funding of the education sector. I would argue that even though the HEA has a governance and oversight role so does the Department and there is a lack of clarity. If I were in the shoes of the Secretary General and I read an email from the head of the HEA that...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Basically Mr. Ó Foghlú does not agree with Dr. Love. I commend Dr. Love on going to this trouble and taking a very personal risk. I would have preferred if he had stayed in his role, to be honest, because I thought he was doing a very good job and was a very good witness before the committee. He made a decision and that is for him. It was very difficult for him to walk away from...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Ó Foghlú might also listen to my concerns, which I will articulate as best I can. We have dealt with a number of institutes of technology and universities where very serious issues have emerged. These include the University of Limerick, Cork Institute of Technology, Waterford Institute of technology, and institutions in Galway and Sligo. A report of the Comptroller and...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Maybe Mr. Horgan will be able to respond to that.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Ó Foghlú might come back on the points I made on the institutes of technology and universities. Consider the level of co-operation this committee feels it gets or does not get from accountable persons when they appear before it. Does Mr. Ó Foghlú believe that heads of institutes of technology and universities are fully accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I will be coming back in on this.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I want to deal almost exclusively with the Waterford issues. I wanted to expand on them earlier but I had to deal with other issues. I will make a general point about the overall issues raised today, one which is separate from but also slightly related to the issues with Waterford. We have had a very good hearing for a number of reasons. The meeting has given us a glimpse into where...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Essentially, it is engaged in firefighting rather than proactively considering the necessary strategic changes and development. I hear that message loud and clear. There are real lessons to be learned. I hope the Department will also accept that because it is very important for all us that that is the case. We are also very mindful of the huge amount of talent in the third level sector....

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: A large number of people came forward. There was considerable engagement and Mr. McLoone drafted a report. I assume the report went to Dr. Love. Was the first draft report sent to the board?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Did the report go from Dr. Love to legal or did it go from the board to legal?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Was legal involved when the terms of reference were set?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Did legal only become involved when the draft report was compiled?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I want to get the timelines and context right. A draft report was done and it had to go to the institute. I imagine senior management and, potentially, people who may have been identifiable in the draft report would receive copies. That is part of the process.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Did legal get involved when it received legal letters from individuals in the institute or maybe people who worked in the institute, or was it involved before that?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Was legal's concerns based on what might have been factual or not in the report or was it based purely on the powers of the HEA to actually do the report?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Were there any concerns about the facts in the report, by which I mean the content?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I accept that. We will deal with the issue of powers because the matter is now with the Attorney General and we will get advice, not only on the Waterford report, but the powers of the HEA to do these types of reports.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: If I was legal looking at it this, there is the issue of whether the HEA has the powers to do this. There is also what is in the report, its content and the facts that were established. Were there concerns about the facts that were established? Was it more-----

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