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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Vote 11 - Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 2 - Collection of Pension Contributions due to the Exchequer
Chapter 3 - Control of Funding for Voted Public Services
Chapter 5 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Vote 11 - Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 99: Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2015
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 100: Public Sector Financial Reporting for 2016
(18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I am seeking a breakdown in tabular form and by income band, for example, up to €25,000, between €25,000 and €50,000, between €50,000 and €75,000 and so forth. It should also show how much was taken from these salary bands under the unilateral pay cuts, how much was restored and how much it is planned to restore, year on year, since pay restoration began....

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I welcome Mr. Ó Foghlú and his team and Dr. Love and his team. Because it is his last appearance before the Committee of Public Accounts, I thank Dr. Love for his service with the HEA and engagement with the committee. He has been a very helpful witness on the number of occasions he has appeared before us. He has also been a staunch defender of the higher education sector. I...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I am aware that Mr. Ó Foghlú cannot answer the questions but I have to say that I am amazed and blown away by the fact that this has got to the Attorney General's office. It is extraordinary that we have arrived at that situation where for those 50 people who came forward and were part of this process - if I am reading Dr. Love correctly - the senior counsel is saying not to...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It is the Accounting Officer in Waterford.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Ó Foghlú, I am sure, knows the nature of that. It is a matter of fact that 50 people engaged with this process. It is a matter of fact that they expressed concerns. If there is a draft report that there is a fear of litigation, then that speaks for itself, in terms of some of what was in the report. I am aghast that it has gone to the Attorney General's office. This is...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Did the Department at any point advise the HEA not to publish the report?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: There was a draft report that was subsequently modified, as we know. There is a modified version which we did not know about until now. Did the Department offer the HEA any advice or give any direction on that modified version of the report being published or not?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: So Mr. Beausang has not, so it is "No".

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: What was the position then when Dr. Love then said that this was now with the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I am going to come back to this and will ask to put down for the second round, as I want to deal specifically with those issues and tease some of that out. I am very alarmed with what I have heard so far. This has been a right mess. It is ridiculous how this has worked out but I will come back to it. If I can come to Dr. Love's resignation email, a letter that he sent to Mr. Horgan who...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Why was this?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Can I end by talking Dr. Love through those individually? I am interested in what he means by all of that. I understand what he is saying but it is important for him to expand and to put on the record what he means. He said that the actual nature of his job militates against any realistic opportunity to deliver much-needed strategic development in the sector. This is what we were...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Why is that Dr. Love?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Is it the legislation solely or is it the dynamic, the relationship between the Department and the HEA?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: That is one of the frustrations he has faced.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Dr. Love has stated this goes back to the legislation and the powers the HEA has. Dr. Love has also said there is a lack of role clarity between the HEA and the Department of Education and Skills.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Let me be clear about this. Is the lack of clarity down to the fact there is general confusion or is it down to the fact that the Department decides it is its turf and it does not want the HEA doing what it sees as its job?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Is there any level of preciousness by the Department and protecting its organisation and what it does and stating something is its role and it does not want the HEA doing what it sees as its role and the HEA may have a different view?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: This concerns us because we are all here in good faith and we have shone a spotlight on the third level sector. We have always done so with a view that the sector has many good people who do a lot of good work but we had concerns about a number of areas and we tried to shine a spotlight on them. We struggled at times to understand who was responsible for what. We did a periodic report on...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: -----and we raised some of these issues. When the head of the HEA resigned and cited the reasons he did so to the Committee of Public Accounts and spoke about serious concerns on a lack of clarity, not being able to deliver much needed strategic development in the sector and a failure to resolve overall funding issues, this concerned members of the committee. As the Secretary General of the...

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