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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Four drafts were produced. The final two were sent to the Department of Finance but there were four in total. Obviously, they continually raised issues in respect of the expertise in the office, as NAMA representatives have said publicly. Did they do that all the way through or was it something they were using towards the end?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: The board of NAMA includes the former chairman of the tax authority and a number of other representatives from the National Treasury Management Agency etc. How does this make Mr. McCarthy feel? It must be unprecedented that individuals of this status who are on the board of NAMA are basically, to paraphrase what Deputy Connolly check said, saying that Mr. McCarthy does not know how to do...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: I am not commenting on it but-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Auditors do not have feelings. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Sorry, I had to put it out there. I am keen to discuss the external retrospective advice of the three different organisations. For many of us in the committee, this information was brought to light subsequently. It was a retrospective, post the report or findings and the engagement with NAMA. It is strange that the Comptroller and Auditor General agrees with those three reports. Yet they...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: There is more information in it than simply the purchaser.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Mr. McCarthy is saying that if they had to use that as part of their equations for analysis, they would have come to different findings. On the question that NAMA asked in respect of the three different reports, they gave the right answers. However, if they asked the right questions they would have got a different answer. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: In other words, Mr. McCarthy agrees with the reports because of the premise on which NAMA asked them to do the reports.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: That is the reason the contradiction stands.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: On what Mr. McCarthy is saying about Mr. Cushnahan, is it fair to say that NAMA did what it was obliged by law to do in respect of dealing with the information that came out about his role rather than what was prudent and right?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: In a similar way to the treatment of Mr. Cushnahan, Cerberus gave an assurance, in respect of the success fee and payments, that nobody from NAMA would be paid as a result of this. Is it fair to say that legally it was covering itself but did not extend that to other third party payments, such as a step-down payment possibility to people who had some association with NAMA? Was it covering...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Within the report, Mr. McCarthy refers to the assurances given.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Does Mr. McCarthy feel those assurances were robust enough?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: On Lazard's role, which is central to our discussion, it seems incredible that a company was paid £4.5 million for this project but was not asked to do any analysis or work in respect of portfolio evaluation or the sales process at the beginning, and was not provided at the end with information about the process by which PIMCO pulled out or the integrity of the process and decision...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: That is very interesting. Compared with Project Arrow and the other one, proportionately the volume of work it executed is much smaller. Would it be fair to say that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: NAMA is constantly challenging advice and external advice, which is not something I necessarily agree with. I am intrigued, however, that when Mr. McCarthy tendered for external advice, he got only one and there was a potential conflict, which is fair enough. It is quite incredible that there was only one. Was the tender too restrictive? Is there anything we can learn from that? Did Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: It is a very short list to choose from.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: I need even shorter answers. It might almost be a quick-fire round. In respect of what Deputy MacSharry said earlier, I was one of the people who got a telephone call and I do not believe it was anything to do with logistics. I just want to put that on the record. I believed it was a formal briefing and, to this day, I believe that by the look of things, it was a selective briefing. In...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Does Mr. Daly believe that-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Alan Kelly: Does Mr. Daly believe NAMA could have handled aspects of this sale better?

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