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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: What is Mr. Timmins doing about CRC Medical Devices? He is reviewing the deal. What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: We will come to that because it is shambles. Nobody seems to be in charge there. There are no directors and nobody knows what was the deal. Part of the company is in wind-down, assets have been sold off for unknown sums with no explanation why the company has been losing money for a long time. Perhaps I will ask Mr. Goulding about that later. I have a question for Ms McGuinness before I...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: Did the HSE even know about its existence?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: I know but I want that confirmed by its officials. They knew about the existence of it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: Did the HSE know about its existence or not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: Did the HSE know about the existence of the company?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: That is pretty bad if the HSE did not know about the existence of the company. That company was co-funding the CRC, which the HSE was funding to the extent of approximately €16 million a year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: I know what the solution is but I am talking about what happened.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: I am a little staggered by this. The HSE was giving the CRC €16 million on average a year but it knew it was getting funds elsewhere and the CRC was never asked by the HSE what funds were available to it elsewhere or where they were coming from.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: In 2009, Mr. Peelo said to HSE officials - I think Ms McGuinness was present - that the CRC was funding the additional €136,000 of Mr. Kiely's salary. Did she not ask how much money the organisation had and where it was coming from? There could have been €100 million there. They had approximately €14 million at the time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: But the HSE knew there was money there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: Mr. Goulding's statement says there was a joint venture with the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: But Ms McGuinness did not ask how much money the CRC had buried away.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: When I began examining this issue, as Ms McGuinness will be aware, it did not take me more than 20 minutes to find out about the Friends and Supporters of the CRC and it did not take me more than ten seconds to see that they had €14 million on hand. I cannot understand why the HSE did not know about this or did not ask about this and when the CRC was requesting funding, presumably by...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: Did Mr. Cregan make judgments about the conflict between the HSE and the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: While I do not dispute any of what Mr. Cregan said, he did not have an investigation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: A few months ago I submitted many freedom of information requests and was told they could not be responded to because there was an "investigation" happening.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: It happened.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: They called it an investigation, although Mr. Cregan does not. This was the reason for declining to give me answers.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Shane Ross: They perceived it as an investigation. We are playing with words. Can Ms McGuinness tell me why the HSE did not send someone independent of the HSE to make these judgments?

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