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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: While we can all refer to this anecdotally, in the case of my family we had a first responder who probably saved someone's life by being prompt and so on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: The Deputy made a request to bring in the HSE and I will do that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: The Deputy only made the request a minute ago.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: The joint committee can address that at its meeting with the HSE before Christmas.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: That is a generic question. Today we are dealing with the national review.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Deputy Maloney has indicated. He has not spoken yet so I call him next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Their work is very important.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: I take the point made by the Deputy. What happens if, for example, HSE south had three ambulances with mileage of over 500,000 km?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: I thank HIQA for its report and thank Ms Dunnion, Mr. Quinn and Mr. Whelan for attending. The debate has been very enlightening. We all recognise there has been a significant change in the ambulance service. As Deputy Maloney has said, it is important that we pay tribute to the staff who have changed the modus operandiof the service, from transporting people to now responding, taking care...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: In saying that, within the structure and culture of the HSE, will the recommendations that Mr. Quinn has promulgated be followed up and acted on? I accept he has not got powers of compellability in that regard.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: For the person watching at home as we debate this who does not understand some of the jargon, can Ms Dunning explain what is meant by the statement in HIQA's report that there is no clinical audit?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Would Ms Dunnion have an opinion as to what model we should pursue here?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: That is fair enough. In his presentation, Mr. Quinn mentioned the ambulance fleet, 18% of which is eight or more years old. Should we be concerned about the quality or roadworthiness of the fleet and its reliability?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Has there ever been a need to consult service users, such as, for example, the family mentioned by Deputy Ó Caoláin or people who have complained about either response times, an ambulance getting lost or whatever? Is that the normal practice?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Are there staff without the appropriate technical knowledge in a leadership position?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Surely a leader requires the competency of being able to ask, cajole or bring staff along on a journey of change. The report signifies and highlights how the health service and ambulance service is being transformed. The HSE is not part of Mr. Quinn's remit. How does he think the HSE has allowed this situation to evolve over time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Is it not a source of concern and worry that people could be put into positions of autonomy or leadership when they are not up to the job or have not got the requisite skills or competencies?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: Is that not a bad way to start?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: As Chair of this committee I find it quite troubling that such a situation has been allowed to happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children: Ambulance Service Review: Health Information and Quality Authority (2 Dec 2014)

Jerry Buttimer: I was going to make a proposal at the end of the meeting but I will say it now in light of the Deputy's suggestion. I propose we invite the National Ambulance Service, the HSE and Dublin Fire Brigade in again at the end of this process. That will be the first part of what we will do. I do not want to pre-empt the discussion but I agree with the Deputy's proposal. Three other speakers...

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