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An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: The very clear Government policy intention in terms of what is protected is relationships that are durable or relationships that are also fundamental unit groups of society and moral institutions like a one-parent family or like a cohabiting couple, whether or not it has children. Those are the relationships we seek to include within this broadened concept of the Constitution.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: No.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: I want to respond to Deputy Bacik because she has raised an important question about relationships between parents and children and the definition of durability. It is important to say the definition of the family is a capitalised term, "the Family". That is also in Article 41. That same term is used in Article 42. In Article 42 it is very clear that "the Family" includes parent-child...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: In response to Deputy McNamara's questions, I remember when the definition of marriage was very much a legal question in Zappone and Gilligan v. the Revenue Commissioners and Others. At that point, the court would not include a same-sex couple who had a fully legal marriage in Canada in the Irish definition because it felt at that stage the definition of marriage and family in Irish law...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: We are making a change, but we are not making a change that opens up the definition of family to the type of relationship the Deputy has suggested because there are existing guardrails. A polygamous marriage is not a fundamental unit group of society or a moral institution within this context. We have examined the question very carefully and we do not feel there is any context in which that...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: We do have an idea because we have the existing guardrails contained in Article 41, guardrails that were deployed in the Zappone case when the court prevented a much more minor expansion of a definition within our Constitution. The court used those guardrails and said it was not for it to expand the definition. What the Deputy is suggesting is far more far reaching and there is no practice...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: No.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: We are not just using the term "durable". We also use the other language within Article 41. The family, following the amendment we are proposing, still has to be a natural and fundamental unit group of society and a moral institution.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: They lost in the Supreme Court.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: Yes, absolutely. I could not have put it better myself. That quality exists in cohabitees' and child-parent relationships. Deputy McAuliffe raised the issue of the impact on immigration law. It is an important point to raise as I have seen it feature in the debate. The clear legal advice we received from the Attorney General is that there will be no legal impact on immigration law or,...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: First of all, because polygamous relationships have never been recognised under Irish law and, secondly, because a polygamous relationship is not one that represents a fundamental unit group of society. It is not one that represents a moral institution in Irish law and it is not durable. The clear policy intention of the Government regarding polygamous relationships, and I have heard the...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: Throuples.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: That issue has come up in some of the debate. So we are clear, such a relationship is not covered in the concept of durability and it is not covered in the expanded concept of the family we are seeking to protect. We have these guardrails already in the Constitution. Putting durability in there adds to that. It is important in a context where we are making a significant and meaningful...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: I will steer away. I thank the Deputy. It tries to speak to the nature of the relationship rather than its length. That is why the term "durable" was used.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: I thank all Deputies for their amendments and their contributions that allow us to discuss, I hope in real detail, the important constitutional changes we are making. Like other Deputies, I welcome the groups represented in the Gallery today. The National Women's Council is here, as are Family Carers Ireland and One Family, and those three organisations are all advocating two yes votes on 8...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: The clear message is that our Constitution needs to reflect our values. Right now our Constitution does not reflect our values because it places women in a particular category and does not suggest that men or anybody else should be involved in the business of care. It excludes so many families from the recognition of the family in our Constitution. I remember that in 2015, when I was also...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: The Deputies' language does not deal with the issue of positive discrimination, though, and I think that needs to have a constitutional basis. Deputy Michael Collins is not here any more, and I do not like addressing critiques of Deputies when they are not here, but he suggested that this amendment could bring in discrimination against various groups. Fundamentally, this amendment is...

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: It will not. There will be no recognition of polygamous marriages. Let us be very clear about that. That is not in any way the purpose. Perhaps when I speak to Deputy-----

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: It is an important question and I will come to it in detail when it comes around.

An Bille um an Naoú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (An Teaghlach), 2023: Céim an Choiste agus na Céimeanna a bheidh Fágtha - Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023: Committee and Remaining Stages (17 Jan 2024)

Roderic O'Gorman: Yes.

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