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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: That sounds very relevant to what we are discussing today so if we could get that detailed information, it would be very relevant to our next meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank Mr. McCarthy. Deputy Donohoe has already discussed some elements of the process but I have some additional questions. Did Mr. McNamara approach the authority or did Mr. Moloney approach him?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: So Mr. Moloney took the initiative. Was he mandated to do that by the board in advance? Was there a previous meeting where he was asked to look for people to enter into a joint bid with for this site?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Who sits on the council?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I can see the interest from the commercial, private side because if one goes in with a joint bid with the Dublin Docklands Development Authority for a site under its remit, one's bidding partner can fast-track planning so I can see the benefit from that side. I cannot see the benefit of getting involved like this from the authority's perspective. Was that issue discussed at the board...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: The authority was concerned about other people coming in and land banking this site - buying it and then not developing it - which would be of no use to the authority and what it was trying to achieve in the area.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: When did Mr. Moloney tell the board that Donatex had started talking to Anglo Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland. I think it was at the meeting of-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes, 24 October. There had been a meeting the night before on 23 October. Item 2.1 of the minutes of 24 October states that, "Opening the meeting, the Chairman drew attention to the fact that he and the Chief Executive had been advised by Mr. McNamara at 8.30pm the previous night that Mr. McNamara was in discussions with Bank of Ireland and Anglo Irish Banks in order to secure the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: So we have a situation where those who felt conflicted by the deal met the night before the board meeting where the board was informed to discuss that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Did that concern Ms Moylan?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: However, not from the point of view of financing. This is the change. They thought Bank of Scotland was involved and then there was a change and discussions were being held with Bank of Ireland and Anglo Irish Bank. Mr. McNamara only told the chairman that the night before the board meeting. Was Ms Moylan concerned that the people with this interest, who could not stay in the room when it...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Ms Moylan speaks about the board as if it was a separate entity, but she was also a member of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Did Ms Moylan feel she could objectively step outside to tell the Minister that this is what the board wants and it should be approved?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I think it goes back to a cultural thing as well and, perhaps, not a proper understanding of a conflict of interest. As Deputy Harris said, it was assumed that because Ireland was a small place, then it was okay. Before and after a board meeting, would Ms Moylan brief anyone on what was discussed in the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: On that point, when Ms Moylan went to a board meeting and gave the Department’s position, did she state she was expressing the Department’s concerns or that she knew what the Department’s concerns were?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: To what end?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Is it the case then that the board would be able to use that information?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I see that as a conflict of interest because Ms Moylan is taking information from the Department that the board would not have, giving it to it and then it can use that in the best interest of the authority which may not be in the Department’s interest.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Given Ms Moylan’s position in the Department, this is a good example where a conflict does arise. Would Ms Moylan take notes at the meetings? Did she type them up afterwards?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 77 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Dublin Docklands Development Authority (Resumed) (2 May 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: When she was preparing for today’s meeting, did she have to go back to the minutes and recall from best memory?