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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Third level procurement would be another leg of that stool.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Deputy Burke would be a fine ambassador.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Is the report written?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: They are outside the door.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Go raibh maith agat. I welcome Mr. McDonagh, Mr. Daly and the other witnesses to the meeting. I wish to focus on a number of different topics. Notwithstanding the interesting anecdotes of meetings with the troika and Ministers for Finance, I want to first get some context on the performance of NAMA. I have no doubt a lot of good work was done and a lot of good decisions, it seems, were...

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: On the difference between the par value and the acquisition value, those losses would have been crystallised by the banks. Who paid for that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: If we are talking about profit, we are talking about it in the context of the €31.8 billion and the €5.6 billion of state aid. Whatever is recovered above that figure but short of the €74 billion-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I wanted to put that context out there first, as I thought it important. With regard to housing, and I want to stay with the Comptroller and Auditor General, chart 7.1 gives a breakdown of how many units were completed by NAMA and delivered up to 2016. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Has Mr. McDonagh the up-to-date figures for how many units were completed and delivered?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. McDonagh have a breakdown of what type of units they are in terms of social, affordable and private?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Is there a percentage breakdown for the 10,500 units? To stick with the 8,000 units, is there a breakdown of how many of those were social and affordable and how many were private?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: The reason I ask is that there was very interesting commentary from Mr. McDonagh at the end of his opening contribution about the housing situation, and I will come to that shortly. To understand that and to link his contribution on the housing market and housing problem or crisis, whatever way one wants to describe it, with what NAMA did, one would need to have some sense of who owns those...

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Do we have any hard figures on that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Has NAMA done that analysis and Mr. McDonagh just does not have the data with him, or is it something NAMA would not have done?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I accept that and I am very interested in learning lessons from the past. Therefore, when I look at the supply of houses now, I am conscious of what happened before, where there might have been an oversupply to speculators who bought houses to make money and speculated on the price of houses. I would much prefer if properties were being sold and given to families who need them and will own...

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I want to move on to Mr. McDonagh's opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: How many residential properties did NAMA sell to Cerberus?

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: While I do not always believe everything I read in the newspapers, a very interesting column in The Times, Ireland edition, was headlined "State buys back homes sold to US equity firm", that firm being Cerberus. Essentially, NAMA sold houses to Cerberus and Cerberus then sold them back to the State's Housing Agency. I can only surmise that they bought the properties at an attractive price,...

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: That is why I put the caveat at the start of my comment, that it was according to one newspaper. Mr. McDonagh might give us a note on that.

Public Accounts Committee: National Asset Management Agency: Financial Statements 2016 and 2017
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 102: National Asset Management Agency Second Progress Report
(20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I return to Mr. McDonagh's opening statement. In it he said that the CSO estimates that about 14,500 new units were completed in 2017 and that will increase to 18,000 units in 2018. That is far short of the 30,000 or 35,000 units that were estimated would be required. Mr. McDonagh continued by saying that the gap between the annual private housing supply and demand is unlikely to be bridged...

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