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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Three weeks, for sure.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: This week would be good.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: We will find out about the other documentation this week.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Good.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: We actually do not really know what Mr. Soffe is talking about. We will find out soon, I hope. Let me refer to the payment of success fees. When the delegates became aware of this, PIMCO had pulled out or was forced out. We still not have got to the bottom of what happened there. An assurance was received from Cerberus afterwards that no payments would be made to anyone associated with...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Past or present. Sorry. I have raised this issue before. What about the step-down process whereby a payment could be made to somebody involved with NAMA through someone getting a payment from Cerberus? In other words, did NAMA ensure categorically that those it was doing business with could not make success payments to anyone associated with NAMA?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I need not ask about the assurance it gave. I asked whether NAMA ensured that third parties receiving success payments could not make further payments to anyone associated with NAMA. I seek a "Yes" or "No" answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. May I make an observation based on Mr. Soffe's answer? The answer is obviously "No" because the process would not have been engaged in had the answer been "Yes". If NAMA had asked Cerberus for a guarantee that it would not be making any success payments to any third parties that, in turn, would make payments to anyone associated with NAMA, the process could not have been gone...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Now it looks like that is not true. We do not know. We will find out in the wash. Page 6 of Mr. Soffe's submission, which is all honest and fairly reflective, states, "On the sales process itself, we believe that the C&AG also failed to take account of the wider political and economic and financial implications in Northern Ireland of NAMA’s decision to sell the Eagle...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Paramount, but not exclusive.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: By all means, do. We are all politicians in here.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: A clean break was obviously discussed at board level. It had to be.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I thank Mr. Soffe for confirming that. Did NAMA have any concerns over the meeting that took place in early 2013 between First Minister Peter Robinson, Mr. Coulter and Mr. Frank Cushnahan at Stormont?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: In any way. I am asking the question.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Think about this: there has been a volte facein the decision-making at board level, moving from a firesale to a sale all in one go. A meeting took place in Stormont. There was a person on the Northern Ireland Advisory Committee at it. There is a letter from Brown Rudnick to Finance Minister Wilson that is effectively a letter of intent. If one looks at it in any other way, one notes it is...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: It is fair to say, however, that NAMA would not have sold were it not for the approach coming in and the way in which it came in.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Then, there was the letter to Mr. Wilson and the meetings which took place in Stormont. Obviously, the letter of intent gave certain guarantees or referenced certain guarantees. Whether they materialised is another question. The next thing that happened was this approach.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I have just outlined four factors and I have also outlined the letter of intent, the meetings that were taking place and the role of Mr. Cushnahan. Did the board not consider all of these activities, the change of thinking as regards a fire sale and the four pressures that NAMA was under? Mr. McEnery has said that section 10 was paramount but not exclusive, which is a very important and...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: My final reference is as follows. At the board meeting of 12 December, reference was made to the idea that the portfolio sale would release NAMA from what it described as "a disproportionate burden of effort in light of the relative size of the portfolio".

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: What does "burden of effort" mean?