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Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: What year was that, Mr. Owens?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: In the run-up to 2011, the audit was being done, a report was being compiled and the Department was informed.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: It was August 2010. The report was issued by the CEO of the VEC. It took until June 2011 for the VSSU to provide a copy of the report to the chairperson of the audit committee. Then the Department was involved.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: How many years did this go on for before the audit was requested in 2010, when the VSSU completed its report? Some of this dates back to 2003 and 2004.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: How did all of that happen? There were obviously no checks and balances. Would you agree?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: Let us look at what happened when there were not sufficient checks and balances. The different issues you had with staff are referred to in the opening comments in the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. They state that between 2010 and 2013, legal settlements amounting to €111,600 were made by the VEC from its own funds. What sort of own funds did the VEC have?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: This would have been taken from taxpayers' money from the Department of Education and Skills, given to the VEC and used to settle claims or make legal settlements.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: If you were paying that towards legal settlements something was suffering. Someone was not getting the money. The money was not paid to you to make legal settlements. What was suffering?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: The schools and centres did not get what they should have got. Did the legal settlements follow protracted legal challenges by staff? What were they about?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: No, no, no. Some €111,600 in settlements was paid out by the VEC from its own funds.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: Starting in 2010. The VEC had settlements of €500, €14,800, €3,000 and €93,000 in 2013 and the legal costs-----

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: It was €178,000 in 2010.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: What was that for?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: That was €178,000 in one year, and then in 2011 it was €49,700, in 2012 it was €156,200, and in 2013 it was €58,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: I do not want to get lost in statistics. Stick to the staff issues. Part of the €178,000 relates to staff issues.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: That is out of the VEC's own funds and it was for legal costs.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: What were the settlements in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: That is in 2010.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: I am asking about 2010. The €178,300 in legal costs must have related to a number of cases.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report No. 89
Internal Control in County Cork Vocational Education Committee
(9 Jul 2015)

John McGuinness: What were the other legal costs? Half of that legal cost related to staffing issues.

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