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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: The Comptroller and Auditor General does that in the course of all of the audits of all Departments and we have an opportunity to scrutinise them. The problem here is that we are being told we do not have an opportunity to scrutinise these accounts in the same way due to legal or constitutional issues. Is that not what Mr. Fraser is suggesting?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: That is a suggestion but he is the person saying it and he is the person coming in. We may need to get some clarity on that. Do we have legal advice as to what we can or cannot do and what we can or cannot ask?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: However, he does not have a duty to explain how the money is spent. I imagine he will say he has allocated the money.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: The breakdown.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: That makes perfect sense.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I am okay with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: My concern is that this could turn into a sideshow and become an issue between the accountable person, Mr. Fraser and members of this committee, which is of Mr. Fraser's making because his letter was over the top and defensive. He could have approached the matter differently. That said, if we are going to do this, we have to frame it in the right context. The context for me is that it is...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: It is nearly 10 o'clock and we have not got on to CervicalCheck or any of the other issues.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: The reason I do not think the committee needs legal advice at this point is because, if it is going to stick with the controls, I see no reason that is not under our remit.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I am happy with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: No.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I do. It is unfortunate that the committee spent 15 minutes on the first issue, although it had to be done, when this issue is much more important.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: That is my point and I do not want to hog this, but we cannot have 15 minutes of discussion on the first issue when a more important issue, and one that requires a deep dive, is only given a couple of minutes. My issue is that I have read Dr. Scally's report several times and it shows failures in system, processes, procurement and audit, all of which come under the remit of the Committee...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Non-disclosure.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: There are a number of other issues that need to be examined. The third level sector was mentioned. There are issues around the departure of the head of the Higher Education Authority, HEA. There are issues around reports which we are looking for. There is a lot of work that can be done. My concern relates to next week's meeting. I am not saying it will be an unproductive meeting because...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: All the more reason to hold it over.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: Looking through the work programme, I do not see any reference to the higher education sector, which is an area that we need to come back to.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: I understand that. I merely make the point. The head of the Higher Education Authority, HEA, has resigned. There were some media reports on the reasons for his resignation. I will not repeat them but they are in the public domain. We were working with the HEA to drive reforms in a number of areas. If it is the case that the reforms met resistance from the Department, I want to know why...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: -----Waterford IT, other institutes of technology and the Department. We have acknowledged that there is an issue in this area. There was a deep dive done but there has not been an outcome, which is unacceptable. It is unfair to leave so many people in Waterford IT hanging. They deserved a product at the end of the process. The Comptroller and Auditor General was doing his report,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Sep 2018)

David Cullinane: It is one of the best in the country. There is no difficulty with quality but there are issues and questions around governance that need to be answered. It seemed they were answered in this report but we do not have a copy of it. My point is we need to get the report and apply pressure. We also need to hear from the HEA's board as to what is happening. The media reports on this matter...

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