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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Members are reminded of the provisions of Standing Order 218 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policies. Members also are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There is a clear case here that where a serious situation is rising again regarding the children's hospital and there are very few forums where this issue can be dealt with. The one forum where it can be dealt with is here and if a body within the Oireachtas wants to hopefully approve that, if they want to deny that request, let us see what happens but we need to test this. We cannot sit...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Absolutely. I call Deputy Colm Burke.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Hold on. Remarks should be made through the Chair.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Yes, Deputy Burke. One can look at the accounts as audited for 2018 and 2019. One can therefore be left standing at the station but the train has long gone through it. That is the problem.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: That is the problem with Standing Order 218, as it has been changed. There are two proposals here. One is we invite in the board of the national children's hospital and the Secretary General of the Department of Health. The second is we write to the Committee on Procedure requesting information from it as to how Standing Order 218, or any other Standing Order, can be changed. It has been...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: In the case of the children's hospital, a Secretary General or another official could do what has been done here. They could say they were brought in to discuss the spend for 2018 and 2019 and could refuse to answer, according to the interpretation we are being given, which I do not accept. It has been suggested that we make a request to the Committee on Procedure to have those...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I suggest that a copy of the letter to sent to the Committee on Procedure. Does Mr. McCarthy want to come in on this issue?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: The Committee on Procedure is the filter that this committee must go through.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: They have to be adopted by the Dáil. Within parliamentary democracy there is nothing preventing the Dáil amending a Standing Order. That can be done and I think we should to do that. We can seek the information in regard to the process for drafting a Standing Order.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: We can then draft a Standing Order. With regard to the children's hospital on foot of what took place yesterday - I am sure every Member of the Dáil, whether on the Government benches or the Opposition benches is concerned about this matter - we will make the request to the Committee on Procedure and await the response.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: It fell at that committee. The majority of the committee did not support the request to change the Standing Order or this committee's question in regard to bringing in the Department of Education on the procurement on calculated grades. That is my understanding of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I do not think so. I am not on that committee but my understanding is that the matter did not make its way through that committee, unfortunately. Obviously, there is work for the parties to do to make sure that any further requests get a fair hearing at the Committee on Procedure.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I presume it can.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: The suggestion is that this committee put to the Committee on Procedure a proposal to bring the Chairman of the board of the national children's hospital before it, along with the Secretary General of the Department, to update us on the current situation with the hospital.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: The other proposal is that we request the information from the Dáil reform committee and the Committee on Procedure regarding the process for amending the Standing Orders.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: We will request the minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I would like the committee to know where the hospital is at the moment.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There will be a letter issued in regard to the two requests.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (4 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy McAuliffe briefly, as we must conclude this matter.

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