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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I will read one note. I am happy to provide further information subsequently. The intention of the entire legislation is to capture the direct and indirect providers of credit. That is the essence of it. Nevertheless, there is a concern that in a slightly different context, interest-free and cost-free buy now pay later, BNPL, credit which is advertised or provided or both by an entity...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: The real concern here is from the consumer's point of view. Under the arrangement that I have just mentioned, there is no credit being charged along the line. The shop is going to pay commission back to the credit provider. There is no interest charged anywhere in the system. While such credit may not come at a cost to the consumer, there is nevertheless a concern that the consumer, if...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I would be happy to do that. We will get the note back to the committee as quickly as possible, well before Report Stage. What we are capturing here is the providers of credit that are invisible in the system. There is no advertising. The companies that advertise are already captured. We talked about the situation where the seller of the goods is advertising. There could be an...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: On the question raised by the Deputy on late payment penalties, we are dealing with the APR as taking all the costs of credit into account. It is on the basis that the contracts are implemented and honoured. This legislation does not deal with situations where there is a default in those payment arrangements. To my knowledge, it does not give comfort to people who default on their loan or...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: There is on the loan. If a customer defaults on the loan, it would be a commercial arrangement between the company and the person who has taken out the loan. Late penalties do not fall within the scope of the APR that we are dealing with here.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I am advised that those matters are already addressed in the consumer protections Acts. I do not think anybody would accept a finance company did not understand the product it was selling. There are provisions in separate legislation already on consumer protection. As I stated in response to the previous issue where there is default or people do not make the payment, issues like that are...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I am advised that a breach of this section would be an offence that the Central Bank can deal with in the normal course of events.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes. The Central Bank has authority if there is a breach of the legislation.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No.5: In page 17, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following: “Amendment of Schedule 5 to 15.Schedule 5 to the is amended, in paragraph 1(4), by the insertion, after “an tÚdáras um Ard-Oideachas,”, of the following: “the Central Bank of Ireland, when carrying out its functions in relation to the Central Credit...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: It is already a requirement to provide a PPS number when a person is applying for a loan from a regulated body. The proposed change is to include that information on the central credit register that will be operated by the Central Bank.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: It is already required that the information would be provided and what this allows is for the Central Bank to verify the information through the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or the Department of Social Protection. The information is coming in, but it now allows the Central Bank to verify it, if it feels the need to verify it, with the Department that issues the PPS numbers....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: While this is not a necessary requirement at the moment for the processing of PPS numbers by the Central Bank or by credit information providers in relation to the CCR, as the statutory basis for that use of PPS numbers in relation to the CCR is contained in the Credit Reporting Act, the Central Bank nevertheless indicates that the inclusion of the CCR on Schedule 5 would have a number of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: No. The Central Bank has access to that information, but they did not specifically up to now.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes, when people had applied for a loan. But they did not specifically list in Schedule 5 the use of it for the central credit register. That is it. They want to make sure that they have the ability to include it on their central credit register also, under section 5. They have the authority but they are being specific. They want to be able to include it here. It is not part of the loan...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I am happy to provide that. It is really so they can verify it back with the issuing Department because there can be mistakes in PPS numbers, and I believe that we all know that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: No.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Their gathering of the information is a separate process and is connected to the granting of the credit. It is gathering information they have on the file so they can do the types of reports the Deputy had suggested earlier on, and that they would have valid and accurate information. The information is not needed as part of the regulatory and reporting function, and it is not part of the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: They would be captured under existing arrangements in terms the central credit register mechanism, now that these come in under it. Up to now those arrangements would not have been authorised by the Central Bank, and now they will be from here on in once the legislation is commenced.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Loans below that will continue to be loaned outside of that reporting structure. We are not changing that level. If there is non-payment or default on those smaller loans, they are not captured under the current or this proposed legislation.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy is now giving a good suggestion as to the value of getting the PPS numbers so we can accumulate those loans. That information cannot be collected or verified-----

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