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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Those letters were sent to the committee and we do not have them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I welcome Mr. Buckley and his staff. An awful lot of this has been made very complex, unnecessarily so, in my view. I just want to simplify and contextualise some of it, if I can. In terms of the documentation, we do not have the correspondence the Committee of Public Accounts received previously on what is before us. Just so I am clear, and the Chairman or the Comptroller and Auditor...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: When Mr. Buckley says senior-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It is only healthy if we learn lessons. Mr. Morgan was a managing valuer before he retired. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: The issue is that a lot of the issues he raised in his 2014 letter are actually what transpired in 2017 and 2018 in respect of the subject matter of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. Does that not concern Mr. Buckley?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Buckley does not believe they are the same issues. I am referring to the mistaken, superficial judgments by surveyors, hidden but legitimate considerations, ignorance of the market by the negotiating body or person, poor negotiating skills and compromised negotiating positions. Mr. Buckley does not feel any of those could be attributed to the subject of the special report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Let me unpick that, which is why we are here. Mr. Buckley has a job to do and we have a job to do, and the Comptroller and Auditor General has a job to do. I want to go back to some of the issues that were raised earlier because I was far from satisfied with Mr. Buckley's response. The first one is in regard to the reports which would have been submitted to the board when it was making a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Was it Mr. Bourke or Mr. Buckley who stated that? I think it was Mr. Bourke, who was helping Mr. Buckley answer the question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I will stop Mr. Bourke there. Although I do not know who gave him the information, Mr. Buckley said earlier there was consideration at board level of the two alternative sites. In what Mr. Bourke is reading out, there is no reference to St. Stephen's Green and no reference to the former Central Bank premises on Dame Street. I ask Mr. Buckley again: at what board meeting were the two...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Visiting a building is not what I asked about. It is a very specific question. Section 6.12 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report states "These [two alternative] options were noted in internal correspondence in August 2015 but were not formally documented in the submission to the Board in March 2016." They were not formally submitted to the board, and "formally" is the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: This is part of the process failure. The primary role of the OPW is to procure office accommodation and then to allocate that accommodation. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: How many staff has the OPW?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It has 1,700 staff yet it has to employ consultants to do carry out some of this role. How is it possible that an organisation with 1,700 staff needs a consultant company to oversee the lease negotiations?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: However, in terms of process-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: In terms of process, the OPW is allocated money which it spends by purchasing or renting sites and overseeing that process. It is important to have follow-through on the processes in place to protect the OPW, its staff and taxpayers' money being spent and also to allow the Comptroller and Auditor General do his job and for the Committee of Public Accounts to do our job. I mentioned the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: That is the Comptroller and Auditor General saying that. Surely that is a fundamental failure in process. The OPW is the organisation responsible for ensuring there is compliance and no difficulties.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Okay. In-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Here is my concern. This comes up over and over again. We saw it with NAMA and different organisations. Sometimes I believe it is deliberate and intentional not to put these benchmarks in place because then organisations can do what they want to do or maybe it is easier for them. I believe it goes back to some of the correspondence provided in 2014. Mr. Bourke seems perplexed by my...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: If a thorough examination of the alternatives was carried out, I am sure the Comptroller and Auditor General would have reported that. He has not reported that a thorough examination was done. He said a lack of documentation was given.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 6: Lease of Offices at Miesian Plaza
(11 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: And whether it is fit for purpose for staff numbers.

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