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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It is not audited by Mr. McCarthy.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: We need to remind ourselves of the context. A special report of the Comptroller and Auditor General looked at this and the whole indemnity scheme in the first instance. Was there a cap of €128 million on the contribution from the religious bodies? Was that their contribution?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: In the Comptroller and Auditor General's report at the time, up to 2015 or 2016, only 13% of the costs of the redress scheme-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Does the Comptroller and Auditor General have an up-to-date figure?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Can we get that?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: There has been some progress, and perhaps the figure has increased, but the position is still unacceptable. Let us be honest about it. This scheme, which was put in place in 2002, is a joke. Many of us commented on the fact that the religious orders got off the hook almost completely. The taxpayer footed-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: The cost was €1.5 billion overall.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes, and that was the story. It would be useful to get that up-to-date calculation.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It was not based on what they gave?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Unless they are going to give more, which is unlikely.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: If we are going to write to Mr. Ó Foghlú stating that we are not happy with the changing deadlines, then we have to ask, robustly, why the deadlines have changed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I refer to more detail and not just one line stating that the deadline was shifted.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I ask the Chairman to put me down for a second time because I will never get through all of the issues in my first slot.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I welcome Mr. McCarthy. We had a lengthy discussion on many of these issues a number of months ago and it is good he is back. The housing crisis, as it is termed, has been around for some time so it is not a recent incarnation. We have discussed this for years. Does Mr. McCarthy accept there is a housing crisis?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Does he accept it is an emergency? Is that the type of language he would use? Does he accept that for many families in need of housing at present and who simply cannot access it, whether it is affordable or social housing or people stuck in high rent accommodation, this is a housing emergency?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: There are record levels of homelessness, as Mr. McCarthy acknowledged earlier. The people see the politicians and talking heads on the television all of the time, but the witnesses before us, whether the Housing Agency or the Department, are the public and civil servants tasked with building the homes and supplying the solutions, as an Teachta O'Connell spoke about earlier, to meet the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I refer to housing needs and I speak primarily from my own experience. I imagine, however, that it is the same for other Members of the Dáil here. People come into my office with a housing need. They want social housing and there is no chance of them getting social housing. I can make as many phone calls as I want to the housing office but the homes are simply not there. The...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: We will get to that in a second. I have Rebuilding Ireland as one of the topics I want to get to. My point is that, as a consequence of policy, rents have now gone up to record levels and to what many people see as unsustainable levels. That is especially the case in Dublin but also in other parts of the country. Part of the reason for that is everybody is now in the same space. Private...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I am not talking about that. That is the future. We have landed in a situation and we are looking back. We can look to the future and we want to look to the future, but as a committee we primarily look back. Over the past five or ten years, decisions were made to stop building social and affordable housing. As a consequence, the vast majority of people now have their housing needs met...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: That was done. My point is that as we sit here, in real time, here and now, too many people are in private rented accommodation where the rents are too high. I am asking a simple question. Did the Department see that coming?

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