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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: At this session we will deal with Vote 38 Health and Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service, IBTS, pension scheme. In the second session of the meeting we will deal with the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board financial statements 2013. Before we begin, I remind members, witnesses and those in the public Gallery to turn off their mobile phones as the interference from them...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I welcome Mr. Andrew Kelly, chief executive officer of the Irish Blood Transfusion Service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: The committee also welcomes Mr. Barry O'Brien, Mr. Peter Brazel and Mr. Brian Naughter from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I invite the Comptroller and Auditor General to make his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Kelly. Can we publish your statement, please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: We will also publish Mr. Breslin's statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: The Deputy has plenty of time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Mr. Kelly said in his opening statement that "the IBTS was informed that the Act did not apply".

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Who told the IBTS that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Was it the Department of Health that informed the IBTS?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Was it after the matter had been clarified, two or three months later, that the IBTS began to collect contributions?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: To the beginning.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: When did the IBTS reach the decision to withhold the money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: How much money had the organisation collected?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: What gave the board the right to have this discussion in the light of the confirmed position of the Department of Health that the IBTS was subject to the FEMPI legislation? What gave the board the right to second guess the legislation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: In what year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: The IBTS continued to withhold the money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I will outline what happened. The IBTS withheld the moneys which had been collected.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: The IBTS was going through a court process which ended in the High Court.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Did the IBTS collect the money until then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: In 2013 it was made very clear that the money was due to the Department. If the IBTS had the money collected for a specific purpose and it was due to the Department, why, at conclusion of the case, did it not pay it to the Department?

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