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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: It kind of is.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: I will indeed. I will quote Ms McElwee when she said a few minutes ago there is a "balance in the existing legislation." I want to put that to my colleagues from the trade union movements. Do they believe there is a balance in the existing legislation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: We have had a whole series of issues in terms of Clerys, La Senza, the Paris Bakery, Arcadia and Debenhams. I will go back to Ms McElwee. Is there a problem here? Does IBEC recognise there is a problem here that needs to be addressed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: I do not accept that point. As has been pointed out already, a reordering of creditors does not necessarily lead to that situation at all. Would Ms McElwee agree that the Duffy-Cahill report has a central context here in terms of the issues we are discussing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: I am just trying to get to the heart of where IBEC stands on these matters. The Duffy-Cahill report was commissioned by the Government. It made six specific proposals to help address this situation. Our colleagues from ICTU and Mandate highlighted the lack of implementation of those. Can Ms McElwee tell me how many of the six proposals from the Duffy-Cahill report IBEC supports?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: It is a really welcome point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: That is the point. That is why we are here discussing this Bill today.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: I am conscious I am running out of time. Just to be clear, IBEC opposed that proposal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: In fact, IBEC opposed all six proposals in the Duffy-Cahill report. Therefore, we have a situation where we have liquidation after liquidation and workers left on picket lines for hundreds of days, and IBEC is here today not just to oppose this legislation, which is why I want to put it in context, but it actually opposed anything that was put forward by the Duffy-Cahill report to address...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: I am out of time but, effectively, Ms McElwee is arguing for the status quo. I do not find that acceptable.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: A key thing that this Bill will do is put workers at the head of the queue when it comes to liquidation, to ensure that they get the money first. I have in mind people I met in Limerick who had over 20 years of service in Debenhams in Limerick, who had to spend 400 days on a picket line. That call seems entirely just. Would Ms McElwee support the call that workers should come first?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: They had an enhanced deal and collective agreement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: That is why we want to change the law.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: Would Ms McElwee not accept that when it comes to who should be prioritised first, I cannot think of anyone more important than someone who has given 25 years of his or her life to a company, as did many of the people in Debenhams? Can Ms McElwee think of anyone more important?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: We are.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: It is not to the detriment-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Pre-legislative Scrutiny of the Companies (Protection of Employees' Rights in Liquidations) Bill 2021: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: It is not to the detriment of other employees. I am conscious of running out of time and I have a question for our colleagues from the trade union movement. In fairness to the Chair and the committee, we have been speaking about this issue for years. The previous Government promised action. It had a report. As Mr. Light has said, it has been sitting on a shelf ever since. We are now...

Seanad: An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business (5 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: I extend a warm welcome to Ms Cara Hunter MLA and Dr. James Wilson. It is great to see them here today. There is a strike happening today on behalf of the Irish Wheelchair Association in 50 centres throughout the State. The workers are personal assistants who carry out very important work in terms of personal care, hygiene and the social outlets they create for their clients. As one...

Seanad: An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business (5 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: Well said.

Seanad: Sick Leave Bill 2022: Report and Final Stages (5 Jul 2022)

Paul Gavan: No.

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