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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: In its work with the advocacy groups, has the Department communicated that they are delaying processing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: Regarding chapter 14, which is on customer service and the development of income support application forms, I am sure that Mr. McKeon will appreciate how much time is spent in a Deputy's constituency office helping constituents fill out the myriad of forms from the 86 schemes that his Department operates. We often contact the Department's various sub-offices. Will Mr. McKeon speak about the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: That is the issue. People sees the form and do not go through it. They then come into our offices. Mr. McKeon mentioned online forms. The size of the forms is one issue. How somebody applies is, obviously, totally different. In an era when one can do almost everything online, figure 14.2 in the report shows how out of the 19 main schemes offered by the Department, only five can be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: Regarding online and paper forms, is the rate of correct completion higher for online forms than for paper forms?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: It would allow somebody-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: In his lengthy opening statement of six and a half pages, Mr. McKeon dedicated two and a half pages to the public services card. In the periodic report published by the committee in March, we noted that the Department informed this committee that we had helped to identify approximately 220 cases of fraud. This resulted in approximately €4.2 million of savings. Can Mr. McKeon inform...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: I asked Mr. McKeon about this issue because, obviously, the Department wants to judge the expenditure that has been set out of some €67 million against what is being saved. The back page of the Irish Examineron Tuesday covered Mr. McKeon's letter to the committee on that issue, and the article also featured a very fetching picture of Mr. McCarthy. It mentioned the business case. The...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: I know but language is important in terms of-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: Mr. McKeon wants to pivot towards one area and I just want to try to-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: Is Mr. McKeon trying to quantify them with a monetary figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: What is the monetary figure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: The Comptroller and Auditor General mentioned the business case and said there were probably contradictions in some of what was being attempted in various documents. If he was to look at it retrospectively now, with regard to what Mr. McKeon said, and if the business case was put in place retrospectively, does he feel it would stack up?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: I am not asking for anything off the cuff. The Comptroller and Auditor General is listening to the information the same as everyone else. Mr. McKeon is saying he is quantifying the amount he believes are efficiencies and savings. Does Mr. McCarthy believe that if he retrospectively looked at this it would quantify the success or justify the implementation of the service?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: Offset against that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Employment Affairs and Social Protection
Chapter 12 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 13 - Timeliness of Income Support Claim Processing
Chapter 14 - Customer Service - Development of Income Support Application Forms
(7 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: The other elephant in the room is the fact it is being examined in respect of data protection issues. The Data Protection Commission said the cost of its initial investigation into the public services card was almost €200,000, comprising €130,000 internal and €66,000 external. Almost €200,000 has been spent investigating it, again fuelling people's frustration...

Committee on Public Petitions: Decisions on Public Petitions Received (6 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: It is an interesting petition in the context of everything that we are discussing. We are talking about the elimination of paper receipts, specifically on debit and credit card transactions. It goes on to talk about the impact in terms of the felling of trees, litter fines, comparable examples in America and so forth. It is worthy of discussion. I am old-school and I still prefer to...

Committee on Public Petitions: Decisions on Public Petitions Received (6 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: This particular one comes down to other issues but also to the production of paper, which is a hugely intensive process. The number of trees felled just to produce paper is amazing. Unfortunately, it is probably a dying commodity in one respect by virtue of the fact everything is electronic. Again, being old-school, that is something that I would mourn to some extent. However, this is a...

Illegal Drugs: Motion [Private Members] (5 Nov 2019)

Shane Cassells: I commend my colleague, Deputy Curran, on bringing forward this motion and on all his diligent work in this area both now and when he was a Minister of State. I also commend the various Ministers of State with responsibility for the area of drugs from all parties who came together last week to show their solidarity and demonstrate that there is a united front across our Parliament in dealing...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Shane Cassells: It is an extremely interesting note from the Valuation Office in the context of commercial ratepayers. It is hugely insightful in the context of our understanding of the system, particularly at a time when revaluations are happening across the country, including in my constituency. It helps us to understand the zoning method and how it is based on the principle that the most valuable part...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (24 Oct 2019)

Shane Cassells: I am not asking for the Comptroller and Auditor General's assessment of the rights and wrongs of the apportionment but on the financial impact on the sector, which he analyses. The Department has made an assessment that it will be largely in line but it does not know. The impact is always felt by the private sector in that the €1.5 billion to fund local government has to be taken...

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