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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes. What I will say is that the Department of Finance would not have direct answers. Much of that would be available through the motor trade. However, will endeavour to talk to whichever Department and whatever is the relevant agency in the motor trade, perhaps the Society of the Irish Motor Industry. Various organisations which may have information. We will assemble what we can, but it...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: We will endeavour to get what information we can.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: All I can say, and I would like everyone in the room to hear this, is that the Department of Finance has no particular knowledge of or is not a fountain of knowledge on this matter. Through the Society of the Motor Industry of Ireland, we will try to obtain what information we can. We try to get information. When some people talk about electric cars, they might be referring to hybrid cars...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: The other point is, as everybody knows generally with the PCPs, the cars with the high mileage, such as those outside of the urban areas are the ones that give rise to a big difficulty at the end of the period. This is because some of contracts are based on annual mileage. Some people in urban areas feel that these cars are great. However, people who are doing 40,000 to 50,000 km per annum...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I do not have that information. There is probably another Oireachtas committee that can deal with the issue of electric cars and transition arrangements. All we are dealing with here is the financing of the PCP products, which can involve any car, be it electric or non-electric. The type and model do not concern the Department of Finance; it is dealing with the regulation of the finance...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 4: 11. Section 3 of the Act of 1995 is amended, in subsection (2), by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (e): "(e) credit granted or made available without payment of interest or any other charge, other than where such credit is granted or made available by a person who has invited, by way of advertisement, consumers to avail of such...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Where the seller of the goods, the shop, advertises interest- and cost-free credit, it already falls within the scope of the legislation. The doubt is over whether the provision of credit to the shop by the company the Deputy referred to is covered by the original legislation. We are introducing the amendment just to make sure the provider falls under the authorisation of the Central Bank.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Correct.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes. Ultimately, we want to capture the credit provider who provides credit to the shop. That credit is ultimately passed on to the customer, who may not be aware that there is a credit provider. The amendment is to make sure there is recourse to the credit provider, not just the shop, which-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Could the Deputy say that again?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I believe we are ad idemon this regarding the customer in the shop. The customer who buys something in a shop may be told to pay for it now and at the end of one, two and three months, not aware that credit is being provided to the shop. This is where the arrangement is solely between the customer and the shop. Klarna or any other such company is not involved in any transaction involving...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Not necessarily.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: The first group that the Chairman mentioned is already captured in the legislation.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: So everything that the Chairman spoke about in the first instance, where there is a credit agreement, is already captured. This is an amendment where there is cost-free credit. So there is no credit charge. One just goes in and if it is €1,000 then one pays €333 today, €333 at the of the month and €333 at the end of month two. There is no credit charge. None....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I can confirm that the legislation captures people who provide credit and the people who advertise the provision of credit. So the provider, Klarna, is captured under this legislation. All of the credit providers are covered.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I will read the wording of the amendment as I think that will help. It states, "credit granted or made available" so everyone is covered if they make credit available. The amendment continues, "without payment of interest or any other charge, other than where such credit is granted or made available by a person who has invited, by way of advertisement, consumers to avail of such...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. What is excluded from the legislation, which the Deputy has talked about, is what we call the informal credit. I mean where a person buys something in a shop on tick and pays the money at the weekend or at the end of the month. Those types of informal arrangements where there is no interest charged are the types that have been excluded up to now and do not prevent the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

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