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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I wonder if mechanisms already exist. Within every organisation, there should be robust systems. If a whistle blows or someone has an issue or a serious complaint, that person should be dealt with properly within the organisation and there should be an appeals mechanism to deal with that quickly and expeditiously. This does not seem to be happening in the State, however, and we end up with...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: That is a fair point. The O'Malley report in respect of domestic violence and Supporting a Victim's Journey speak to that in the context of the journey of a victim of sexual or domestic abuse. They address how the criminal justice system liaises with and works with the person. If the Chair saw the programme earlier in the week, he will know that the victims spoke about the criminal justice...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: They may not want to prejudice the matter because no case is ever closed. Fresh evidence can emerge, which may be a factor in that. Regarding the Grace case, am I correct in stating that the commission has been granted an extension in order to complete its work?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: It is due to finish its work by July. The second phase relates to the care of other people who resided with the former foster family, along with matters relating to protected disclosures and those who made them. It is taking into account the facts established in phase one of its work. Phase 2 will commence following consideration of the phase 1 final report. The Chair probably knows this...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Which case is this?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Is the Chairman referring to my office?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I will have to check that for the Chairman. I know that when people are appointed to certain boards, their legal duty is to the board, which may prohibit them from reporting to individuals about matters relating to the board, governance and so on. That is problematic for public officials on boards because their ultimate loyalty should be to public service. Nonetheless, if a public servant...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes, the Chairman can bring it to my attention. People cannot be dismissed on the basis of having autism or epilepsy.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: It is. There is a significant issue with vacancies and the difficulty in attracting workers for a whole range of sectors, especially hospitality, truckers in the haulage industry, and construction, although the capacity for construction is back to where it was before the pandemic, which is a good story. The Tánaiste and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment have been...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: It is constant. Everything possible is being done to speed it up. Representatives of many of the sectors have told us they cannot get workers. One issue with hospitality related to the income thresholds that existed for work permits. In the interim, we will have to examine that because hospitality has taken a significant hit as a result of Covid-19. We will need to come up with a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: My understanding is the Minister is due to meet Deputies from the region.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: He has indicated he is looking forward to meeting Deputies from the area.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes, that is my understanding. I take the point about moving it on.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: There are limits to the NDP, even though it is a huge programme. My preference is to keep projects moving. Moreover, much land has been sterilised and people cannot use it because of routes being on the agenda.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Even if the routes could be narrowed and a selection process could be agreed, we would make at least that degree of progress and it would free up the situation for many people. The Minister understands that point and recognises the issue. His main concern is that the same progress is not being made in respect of public transport, because of the nature of the projects, planning processes and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I understand that fully.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes, in my view, relative to other countries at this juncture, we did well, particularly in respect of mortality and severe illness. Similarly, ours was one of the most successful vaccination programmes globally. The booster campaign, too, was vital in dealing with the Omicron variant. I think we have placed sixth in the European Union in terms of lowest mortality rates. As for the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: We implement a security-by-design, defence in-depth approach to cybersecurity. We are very conscious of the need for ongoing engagement with experts, particularly in the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer and the National Cyber Security Centre to ensure best practice operates as it relates to all aspects of cybersecurity and information security. In the Department of the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: I do not believe the Deputy is speaking about any specific issue; I take it he is speaking more generally. Generally, due process and natural justice should always apply. The legal world is different from the political world in that there are different bars and thresholds. We have to take that on board also. The political world can be a very cruel world for people.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(9 Feb 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes.

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