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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Is there a target? Is the target broken down further?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Not beyond 2018.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It is whatever targets are set by the Department. We come up against this issue all the time. The Comptroller and Auditor General would always say that targets, a metric or a benchmark, make it much more easier for us to evaluate whether they have been met.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: So each year is broken down.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Whatever the Secretary General has, he can send on to us as it would be useful. Earlier the Secretary General talked about the change. One of the difficulties with building new homes is the process and the Cathaoirleach has asked how much of the overall money is spent on building new homes. We have been told that one of the problems is the four stage process. We hope to get some of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Why are the local authorities not taking it up? This was one of the issues in the overall debate. The Department says the local authorities will not build quickly enough and the local authorities say they cannot because the process takes so long from start to finish due to a cumbersome four stage process. The Secretary General has said the process was modified down to a one stage process...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: All the more reason, a Chathaoirligh, we should have representatives of councils or the CEOs-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: -----appear before us so that we can explore the issue with them. I have spoken to a number of them. If the Secretary General remembers the last time he was in here, I had contacted a number of managers who I know across this State and that was one of their concerns. I am interested to see how this works out. Obviously, it is still not fully resolved and I hope that it is because it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I am talking about the European Commission's report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: No.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I refer to the European Commission and the sector classification of approved housing bodies. It looks at whether AHBs should be on-balance sheet or off-balance sheet. Is that a source of contention? The conclusion was that "Eurostat considers that AHBs have a non-market nature." Is the Secretary General concerned about that? Has he read the judgment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It is a EUROSTAT ruling, essentially.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: What are the implications of that ruling?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Have I read it correctly? Is it essentially talking about market rents? It had a concern about the way rent is calculated by the approved housing bodies - in other words, whether it is a subvention.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: That is something the Department will have to consider and is considering.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Maybe we will come back to the issue at some point. The last topic I want to deal with before I make one overall observation is public private partnerships, PPPs. There are 500 units as part of a PPP project in Dublin on site. I know from what I have read elsewhere because we have not discussed this matter that there was an element of benchmarking done to consider the economic cost of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Given that the project is now under way, what would prevent the Department from publishing the benchmarking exercise in respect of this project?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Who signed off on it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 10 - Funding and Oversight of Approved Housing Bodies
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
2017 Financial Statements - Housing Agency
(25 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Would local councils have a role?

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