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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: All right. I thank Mr. Breslin and his team for appearing before the committee this morning. Does the committee agree to note Vote 38 - Health - and dispose of chapter 13? Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller General and 2014 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38: Health
Chapter 13: Irish Blood Transfusion Service Pension Funding
(8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: We will take ten minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I welcome the witnesses and advise them that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I note Mr. O'Brien from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is also present. I now invite the Comptroller and Auditor General to make his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. McCarthy. I now invite Mr. Pollock to make his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: May we publish the statement?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Perhaps Mr. McCarthy will elaborate.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Ms Duffy is present.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I will first go through the list of questions. These relate to the question the Deputy has asked about the review. Mr. Tom Costello said the main work on the original plans was carried out by a business services team. Therefore, the board or whomever gave most of the work to this team, which, presumably, appointed the architects and worked up the plans in the context of making the original...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I understand the lessons being learned. I am trying to get to the point before the board started to learn lessons from this saga. To assist Deputy Joe Costello, I am simply asking if there is documentation that can inform the committee, the Department and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform as to what happened in the course of the business services team's analysis of the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Would there not have been procurement at the time?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: That is what I am seeking. I am looking for the evidence that would show us the process that convinced the business services team and 1.5 or two people who were involved at executive level that they should go with the possibility of a successful planning application and the support of DCC to An Bord Pleanalá. There must be documentation.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I understand all of that because that goes on all over the country in terms of planning authorities. I am seeking the documentation that helped that team to reach a conclusion that there was a possibility of securing planning permission. If the two people gave the contract to a business services team, they must have had a set of instructions and the team took a set of actions. They must...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Well, then the board.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Pollock telling me that essentially what happened here is the business services team was appointed and off it went and there was not much engagement with it?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: What volume of paperwork is available to Mr. Pollock and, therefore, through him to us in the context of the activities at the time of the board or whoever else was involved and the business services team?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Can we have those?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I refer to where we are now in terms of a review. At the outset, Mr. Pollock stated, "The Comptroller and Auditor General, Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the HSE, as funder, were in agreement with the approach taken by the development board and the Department confirmed to the development board that it had no objection to the write-down in the development board’s 2013...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Does Mr. O'Brien believe that review could be undertaken quickly? What is the process for that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board Fund: Finance Statements 2013 (8 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: That is the broader recommendation. However, for the specific purpose of us continuing to look at this, is it okay for you, Mr. O'Brien, to tell Ms Duffy to go ahead and do the review?

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