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Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes, just one final observation.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are back to the starting sequence of Deputies David Cullinane, Alan Kelly, Catherine Murphy, Marc MacSharry and Jonathan O'Brien. We are into strict ten-minute slots and if someone wants to come back in again, that is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Let the witness finish answering the question. I will give the Deputy an opportunity.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Dr. Holohan should finish his last sentence.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I know, but in fairness to the witness, serious allegations have put been put to him that a Minister said he should resign. The allegations have been put to him at this meeting and he is entitled to respond to such a comment.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I must point out that when a member of the committee makes a statement on his view in respect of witness X, Y and Z, that is the view of the individual member, not the collective view of the Committee of Public Accounts. The committee has not made any such decision. Members have their opinions and are entitled to them. Witnesses must not go away thinking something is the collective view of...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy has run out of time.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy has concluded. Mr. Connaghan will make a final response.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Deputy Kelly will be the next member to contribute.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Before we move to Deputy Kelly, I would like to highlight that we received three batches of documentation during the lunch break. We will note and publish them on our website. One relates to the Civil Liability (Amendment) Act 2017 and an up-to-date briefing note on the statutory instrument. Another document is an email from the HSE with two versions of the draft press statement on this...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: What month approximately?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: April.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: The one thing puzzling me is the fact that Dr. O'Keeffe is telling us that in February, the people in CervicalCheck, with whom she meets every month, asked her to come to a special meeting to discuss this audit. Am I right in saying that?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Absolutely. During that period, Dr. O'Keeffe is involved in the memo explaining what was going to happen if the story broke. I think we were told there are now eight versions. Mr. Connaghan said there are eight versions of that memo.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: We have seen two versions of the question-and-answer session here and two drafts of press releases. In her role as national director for health and wellbeing, Dr. O'Keeffe was informed about this problem and had detailed meetings and all these items of correspondence commencing in February 2016. A lot of this was to inform the patient and if the story broke, they had all the information for...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am utterly at a loss to understand. She was aware of this problem in February 2016 as the most senior person - national director. If there was a concern for the patient, I would have assumed that at the monthly meetings, she would have asked how things were going. It has emerged today - if it has not yet emerged - that out of the approximately 200 cases, approximately 40 were notified by...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: There were individual cases with the State Claims Agency.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: There is a clear breakdown. When Dr. O'Keeffe was asked whether she remembered what happened in that meeting in 2016, she told us about how she felt at the meeting. She does not have documentary notes. Her feeling at the meeting was concern for the people. It is the normal response we get and we take it as probably a far more intuitive response that Dr. O'Keeffe felt for the person who...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am not worried about the monthly meeting. Dr. O'Keeffe was the national director-----

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: How could Dr. O'Keeffe accept it was going well when we know two years on that 80% of the patients were never contacted? Can she document what was going well? Something was going well but not contacting the patients-----

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