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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: It might be good if each of us got a few minutes' silence. I propose we suspend for one hour, until 10.30 a.m. That has to be enough.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I propose suspending for half an hour.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. We will suspend until then.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: In ten or 15 minutes, they are bringing it over.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. We will have to wait for ten minutes until the document is copied. We will suspend until 10.30 a.m. to give us an opportunity-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. We have only one or two copies here.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is for members to decide where they want to read the document. We will commence in public session with the witnesses. We will suspend the sitting until 10.30 a.m.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Today we are returning to matters related to State claims, the management of legal costs, open disclosure, and the implications of CervicalCheck revelations. We are joined today by Mr. Jim Breslin and Dr. Tony Holohan from the Department of Health, and Mr. John Connaghan, Dr. Colm Henry, Dr. Jerome Coffey, Mr. Liam Woods, Ms Rosarii Mannion, Dr. Stephanie O'Keeffe, Mr. Damien McCallion, Dr....

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Prasifka. He is joined by Dr. Audrey Dillon, chairperson of the ethics and professionalism committee and a member of the Medical Council. The two witnesses are free to leave because they have an important meeting pre-scheduled. They are very good to have made themselves available at short notice for this meeting this morning. We shall now proceed. I just want to get...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Breslin. We will now take the opening statement of Mr. Connaghan, interim director general of the HSE. He is welcome to the meeting in his new role. It is his first time to make a presentation to us.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Before I call the various speakers, I wish to raise one issue with Mr. Breslin concerning his opening statement and the one topic of open disclosure. Mr. Breslin mentioned open disclosure quite a bit in his opening statement. As we stand, what does he see as one of the main barriers to open disclosure?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I cannot accept that answer as I do not think it is adequate. Mr. Breslin specifically said, in relation to open disclosure, that the matter was dealt with last year by way of the Civil Liability (Amendment) Act 2017, to which I am sure he was referring. This committee has been dealing with this issue and the State Claims Agency for quite a considerable period. I will display on the screen...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Secretary General told me verbally before that the matter was dealt with last year. I am saying it was not. This is May and seven committee meetings on from when this controversy arose. Those regulations are still not in place. The clinicians and people involved in the HSE are as fearful of open disclosure as they were before the passage of the legislation because the Department has...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Who are the other bodies?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that is the process involved. How close are the regulations to completion? Has the Department circulated to the bodies involved and received responses from them? Are they still outstanding? Has the second draft been agreed? We all understand it is good and necessary. It is a policy that all doctors engage with open disclosure. The Department, however, has not given them...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: In June.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: Has the Department got formal responses back from the HSE? Is the HSE satisfied that the draft it has seen will be signed by the Minister?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that but is there somebody here in the HSE delegation who can answer that question?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

Seán Fleming: How about HIQA? Has it responded? The Secretary General has come in here with a full page about open disclosure. We had debates in the Dáil on this topic this week and responses from the Minister. I want to talk to the Secretary General about open disclosure and he is telling me there is nobody in the room who knows the details of where this process is at.

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