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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: That is the overall objective. The possibility of making such investments is not going to be ruled out, provided they are directly linked with a move away from fossil fuel dependency towards more renewable forms of energy. That is an important principle. The wording will have to be teased out.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: Absolutely. We will hear from those concerned later. They will set out their mandate and objectives to increase their investment in the renewables sector. It is important to deal with that issue. With regard to countries which have similar provisions, Mr. Bond might be best placed to answer my next question. Do other countries give a similar mandate to public investment vehicles that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: The delegates have acknowledged that the direct practical impact is modest, but this says a lot about our priorities and leadership and shaping public opinion. Is there more we could and should be doing in the public sector and across the full footprint of the public service, including in regard to how public transport companies, for example, use fuel? Could this template be used and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: I thank our guests for this session. Will the ISIF give us the details of its current investments, both direct and indirect, in fossil fuel companies in its global and Irish portfolios?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: Is this the global portfolio?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: That is €30 million of the €3.5 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: The global portfolio comes to a total of €318 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: What is the value of the global portfolio?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: Of that €6.3 billion, €318 million would meet the definition. What is the value of the Irish portfolio?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: The largest element of the global portfolio’s exposure is the €252 million in debt instruments. Will the ISIF explain how these debt instruments come about and their type of maturity? Essentially, when would they automatically wash themselves out of the portfolio?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: Is there any obligation to renew them or roll them over?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: On average within a three-year period, if the ISIF does not issue new debts to companies which meet the definition, then the €252 million exposure will disappear?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: They will wash themselves out. What are transaction costs? If the fund is disposing of an asset, what percentage of the value of that would be accounted for by transaction costs?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: What would the typical rate be for equity holdings?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: Essentially, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of euro, not hundreds of millions euro. If the fund disposed of the equity of €36 million, the transaction cost would be pretty negligible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: To recap briefly, with regard to the €36 million of direct equity holdings in the global portfolio, there is no direct barrier to disposing of those and the transaction costs are minimal, of the order of approximately 0.7%. Regarding the debt instruments, there is an average maturity of about three years remaining so those will be extinguished at that point anyway. With regard to the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: If Mr. Bristow were to try to extricate ISIF from those pooled funds to get rid of the €30 million, what would that involve?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: Is that €30 million made up of a small number of substantial chunks or a very large number of small elements which combined give the €30 million?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: No. I am referring to the €30 million in the pooled funds.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Fossil Fuel Divestment Bill 2016: Discussion (27 Jun 2017)

Michael McGrath: In terms of divestment, is it fair to say that that is the most challenging aspect?

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