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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Maybe we will look for more information at a later stage in relation to that. In regard to the sale of Project Glas and Project Glenbeigh, €2.1 billion was the book value for Project Glas while it was €1.3 billion for Project Glenbeigh. What did the bank get for them?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Some €900 million was received for that, or slightly below. What about the €2.1 billion in respect of Project Glas?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Some €1.3 billion was received for that. That is a €1.2 billion haircut on those two loan books to the vultures. Would that be correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: What would it look like if the bank passed on that to the customer?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, when we are looking at it from the bank's point of view. When we are looking at it from the customers' point of view, they owed the €1.2 billion. Instead of giving the vultures the €1.2 billion of a haircut, if the bank were to pass that on and restructure those accounts in a way that absorbed the €1.2 billion, how non-performing would those mortgage accounts be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Masding mentioned my legislation on no consent, no sale. I am glad he has brushed up on it. The Bill comes from the Central Bank's code of practice, introduced in 1991, to which no bank, including Permanent TSB, has ever adhered. It is voluntary. Mr. Masding said he shared the concerns of the European Central Bank in respect of the Bill. I have made it clear on numerous occasions...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: On the issue of access to the market, it has been quite interesting to see the tsunami of opinion, from bankers to academics to the Minister for Finance writing opinion pieces about this legislation. They continue to raise the issue of securitisation, which is exempt, as will be clarified. If this Bill just prevented clear loan sales to vulture funds, we have heard the Central Bank saying...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The question was how concerned Mr. Masding would be if one of the vulture funds to which his bank has sold a customer account did that. They are entitled to state that the arrears should be paid within 30 days or that they would be left with no option but to appoint a receiver to the account. The loans are sold in the first instance because they are non-performing or restructured, so there...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. Going back to the securitisation issue, the Chair asked about Project Glenbeigh and the structure that was entered into there. It is a sale through a securitisation vehicle. Who came up with the concept of that vehicle? Was it Permanent TSB or other investors? Who developed it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Of those 14, how many were in respect of residents?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: All of them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: This is just to clarify the different types of structures that the banks are using. Would all of the securitisations in which Mr. Dolan was involved before have resulted in loss of ownership and transfer of title?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: So they would have been synthetic securitisations.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: There would be no transfer of title. This was a departure, which is what I am interested in. Why was this model taken as opposed to the other 13 models which allowed for the risk to be transferred but did not involve a new servicing agent or the sale of the loans to a third party, namely the vulture?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: We are trying to figure out how different banks are dealing with these issues using different structures. Bank of Ireland was in with us last Thursday. It has gone through a securitisation process and is reducing its NPLs by a fraction of 1%. It is not a huge sale in terms of numbers and is nowhere near the value of Glenbeigh. It reduces the bank's NPL level but does not do what Glenbeigh...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. Dolan explain that to me? Why did Permanent TSB not look at that structure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The recognition is that the NPL risk is now no longer with the bank.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The advice Permanent TSB got was that it could not retain servicing of the mortgage, which would mean that the bank could not service them and would have to employ an agent like Pepper or whatever. Was Permanent TSB advised that it could not retain ownership of the mortgages? That is one of the core issues.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Sorry, can Mr. Dolan say that again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. Dolan explain that to me? This would be instead of securitisation and instead of transferring in six months. This would be the vehicle. Why was such a vehicle not possible?

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