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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Garda cars also come under current, whereas items that one would imagine are capital in the Office of Public Works are current as well. Apparently, it is all down in this lovely book, Public Financial Procedures.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: One will get it on the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's website. All my Department officials go around with it as a Bible.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It depends.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: For example, the €100 million that I allocated-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: -----includes €50 million allocated to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport for roads which will be simply subsumed into the roads budget.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Yes. The funding allocated to the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government for the retrofit will be in its current allocation as well. Then there is the additional capital allocation to the Department of Education and Skills for the additional schools.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It will be accounted for at the end of the year.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Yes. It will be a rounding-up at the end of the year. For example, in the discussion I had with the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, on the schools, we debated what was the best way to proceed. I opened the discussion by asking if I had €50 million to allocate to the Department of Education and Skills, what is the best way, in terms of stimulus, that I could get...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: By and large, that is true. However, some of the very significant expenditure will be off balance sheet.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: They are PPPs.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I move amendment No. 22: In page 5, before section 2, to insert the following new section:2.—The Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Act 2011 is amended by inserting the following section after section 17:"17A.—(1) A public service body may, and shall if requested by the Minister, provide to the Minister such information as may be reasonably necessary for the purposes of any...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: As a matter or courtesy,-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Under normal protocols, anything that is going through a Department to me or to anybody else would automatically go through the Minister.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: The NRA.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: We deal with every agency in any event. My Department deals with every section.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: When I saw this, I asked why was it necessary because are we are getting that information. By and large, we are getting it. As my good friend, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, usually says, "Ar eagla na heagla.", for clarity, and so there will not be any impediment to getting it or legal confusion about have I the right to get it, we have provided for this section.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: No. As the Deputy rightly says, the Dáil is gaining. I do not see how it could lose anything. Oversight as it was done over the last 20 years was not particularly strong. As Deputy Fleming has repeatedly and strongly made the case, it was post-fact consideration of expenditure. The money was spent. The construction of a budget each year was entirely an Executive function. One...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Yes. The provision operationalises the management component of the so-called six pack, which consists of five directives and one regulation introducing what the Europeans call the expenditure benchmark. It is being rolled out across the European Union.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Largely, that is it. There are amendments I am introducing on behalf of the Minister for Finance in relation to the designation of the fiscal council. We will be dealing with that shortly.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (26 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I am not aware of anything else of substance that is fundamentally different from the existing legislation.

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