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Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I said earlier that the people who were here for that evidence should be back here today. It should not just be Mr. O'Brien.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I accept that, though we tried to change it. My committee made an error in the way we worded it and it was my fault - I blame nobody else for that. The evidence was given by Mr. Healy. The Dignam report is accurate so these things do not add up. There may be a valid reason but we need it to be explained so I ask Mr. O'Brien to get back to us with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I am not asking Mr. O'Brien to make any judgments but I am asking him to ask Mr. Pat Healy for an accurate statement of what happened.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. In a previous meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts there is a difference of evidence, which is why we are here today. The original evidence came from an earlier meeting and there is a chronology. At meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts in April 2015, Deputy John Deasy said, "At a workshop held by Mr. Crowley in September 2014, he said that Mr. Healy had...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I think it was July 2015. When did legal issues-----

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why was that? It seems strange.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: This was five and a half or six months later.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: This is interesting new evidence about which we have not heard.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Excuse me. There was a gap but there were also two different levels.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I was very much taken by Dignam saying that everyone in the Devine inquiry was provided with an extract of the final report and given the right to reply. In other cases, certain legal findings meant the process was not followed but Dignam gave the right of reply to everyone.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Why could disciplinary proceedings not continue?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Is it fair to say that Mr. O'Brien disagrees with Dignam on this?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Prevarication and long timelines raise other issues relating to fair process. The likelihood of anyone being disciplined for what happened reduces with time. Mr. O'Brien acknowledges the mess created over apologies when he appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts last year. It should not have happened and must have been one of the most embarrassing days for him, as head of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: At the meeting of 2 February 2016, Mr. O'Brien was asked if he would apologise to the whistleblower and said he would meet the whistleblower. Did he do that?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Mr. O'Brien knows where I am going with this as well as I do. Did Mr. O'Brien ask somebody else to apologise and did they refuse? This is all part of the evidence.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: This is evidence that was given here on 2 February 2016.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Hold on a second - I am trying to establish the following. Commitments were given there. Questions were asked about an apology. Apologies were given and acknowledged in that meeting. They all happened. Mr. O'Brien apologised to the committee. He was asked if he would go and meet with the whistleblower as part of that. I am asking if the meeting took place because it was part of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: It lacks value if that is done.

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