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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: So it is a guesstimate as to the five years-----

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: -----but that is reasonable. The North Meath Communities Development Association has been writing to the committee for quite some time. It relates to a particular project. I believe it went to arbitration in 2004. The arbitration ended in 2008 and there was an award in terms of that arbitration. The arbitration process, as I understand it, is fairly clear. There is only a one day...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I read the decision and it is fairly clear that the HSE is in compliance with what was said after the decision was made but the decision, according to legislation, which was awarded on 17 September 2008, is expressed to be a final award. If Mr. O'Brien reads the decision of the arbitrator and that final award, that is it, not the clarification that he received. The legislation refers to...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Exactly.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: The clarification Mr. O'Brien received on 12 January 2009 was followed by a letter on 15 January 2009, which deals with the matter again. I ask Mr. O'Brien to look at this, and look at the correspondence, if he has not done so already-----

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: -----because it is an issue I intend to revisit. I will set out the position for members because it is a matter this local group were anxious to sort out and it is clear from what was being done that the clarification sought, and the withdrawal of that three days later by the person writing the letter, differs in ways from the decision of the day, and the legislation states that the decision...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I am not familiar with that legislation.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I just had a barrister point it out to me. I am quoting from the information I have received. If Mr. O'Brien would not mind doing that I would be grateful, and at some stage we will come back to it.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: It is. It is here, so we can pass it on to Mr. O'Brien.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Mr. O'Brien should know that it is not by way of confrontation. It is to see if we can resolve an issue around an organisation that delivered fantastic services to the local community and is anxious to work with the HSE and get over this particular problem-----

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: -----which is a problem for Mr. O'Brien and the clients because the service is not being delivered, and a problem for them because their project has come to an end.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. O'Brien. The response times to the Committee of Public Accounts is an issue that was raised earlier and I raise it again now because Mr. O'Brien will be coming back to us on a number of issues arising from this meeting. I ask Mr. O'Brien to look at that because in April of this year we raised a number of issues and only late last night we received the response to some of...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: To go to the small and medium enterprises, SMEs, and the €9 million that is in dispute here, the Comptroller and Auditor General has drawn attention to it in the context of the 2013-2014 report. Is this €9 million compensation being asked for by a group of suppliers because they were paid late?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: To be clear about this, the legislation states they would be entitled to compensation for late payment, but they have to ask for it.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: What is the view of the Department of Health on this?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: Which argument?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: By the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: For the moment, it is a figure in the accounts. The money does not have to be paid out because it has not been demanded. It will just sit there while the legal position is sought. Will the same thing occur in 2015?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

John McGuinness: How much will be allowed for in the 2015 accounts in terms of setting a figure aside?

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