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Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: What is inaccurate? What did I say there that is inaccurate?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I am talking about Devine specifically. The issue in relation to the health committee, what was happening in this committee, the stuff that was appearing in the media after a period of years, these all pressurised - that is the only way it can look here - the HSE into finally asking the Garda. Something must have happened. Why did this not happen three, or two or six months earlier? Why?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: To be fair, we are splitting hairs here, while there was only mention of this from the committee - and I have read the transcript - to be fair while those on the other side did not mention the whistleblower they were still answering questions that we all knew what they were talking about. That does not really matter.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Two of the Deputies have spoken about the panel and the five people. I will not get into it because they have asked all the questions I would have. I do not think it adds up. It seems that evidence was given and as a consequence of that evidence, retrospectively an argument has to be put forward. Looking at the Devine report, it does not add up for me and, I believe, for all members of...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. However, in the past they just did not work to the level required.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I agree with Mr. O'Brien. I am just summarising. In fairness, procurement simply did not work 100% the way it should have in the past. My concern, which is for another day and not for this, is that there is a cultural issue here. If it happened here, it obviously happened across the board in other cases, where work or investigations had to be done quickly.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: That did not make it right.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Mr. O'Brien is being very open. I appreciate this.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: It happened elsewhere.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I agree.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Okay, fair enough. That is very honest of Mr. O'Brien. Let us consider what Dignam said about the report. In 2009 the HSE set up the Devine inquiry to investigate the case of Grace, omitting the other 46 allegations. The Dignam report stated "the adoption of Terms of Reference by the HSE which led to this focus, means that the approach adopted to the Inquiry by the HSE was inadequate in...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Previously.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Could Mr. O'Brien answer the question, please?

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Was there one quote given, yes or no? It is a simple question. I will assume the answer is "No" unless Mr. O'Brien says "Yes".

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Mr. O'Brien is basically saying he does not know the answer, which is fair enough.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. If Mr. O'Brien does not know the answer, that is fine by me. It is great to be on your own; we could be here all night, lads.

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: We will probably crack open beers after what went on in the Dáil. Mr. O'Brien's colleague, Pat Healy, told the Committee of Public Accounts that when he was in the HSE the person in Resilience Ireland, which got the contract, did not have a huge role in the terms of reference. However, Dignam found that the person involved, Mr. Crowley, was the person appointed by the serious...

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I have follow-up questions, but I presume the witness will say the same thing so I will not even bother with them and will move on to the other-----

Public Accounts Committee: Correction of Record of Meeting of 2 February 2016 (23 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I know that.

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