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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I know where the money is intending to go. Why did it take us so long to submit the application?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I am sure all member states did work in the background before submitting an application.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That would certainly be to our benefit as members of the Committee of Public Accounts. I will return to the broader question in a minute but Mr. Hogan mentioned the recovery and resilience facility, RRF, and we have been tardy in putting the application together for its drawdown. On the European Regional Development Fund, ERDF, my information is that €283 million was drawn down in...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I drew this figure from the Department of Finance's financial accounts. If the Department of Finance is putting a zero figure in there when we had a substantial amount the previous year, surely the Department of Finance would go to the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform about it. I wonder if the official from the Department of Public Expenditure,...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I understand all of that but I have a zero figure for 2022 and a substantial figure for 2021. Will there be drawdown from the 2022 round or did we fail to make an application? Why do I see a zero figure recorded?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: The Comptroller and Auditor General is looking to make a contribution.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That is the crucial point. We need to know how much was applied for, turned down or disallowed. The Comptroller and Auditor General has made a specific point about the ERDF but CAP funding is a really substantial stream of funding we derive from Europe as well. Am I right in saying that as a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, I do not get eyes on that? Does this flow straight...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: The committee on agriculture would see the Vote and we could look for that from that committee but I am hearing that I have little visibility of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I understand that but the Department of Finance is supposed to be central with the money that comes into the country. I am hearing that we have a disjointed picture and that this committee does not have clear oversight of the various funding streams, be they the CAP, the RRF or the ERDF. I do not get a timely and complete picture put in front of me so that I can understand and assess.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I have a load of other issues I want to raise but I will wait for the second round.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I will stay with the subject of the debt, on which there has been great progress. I did not realise the average maturity was quite so long. I was going to ask about how that interest rate profile will look over the medium term. From what Mr. McCarthy is saying, it is quite a good picture. We have a stated debt-to-GNI* target of 85% to reach by 2025. We hit 82.3% in 2022, which is good...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I am sure it creates problems for the Department but I suppose the fact that the trajectory in relation to GNI* is so positive is a good thing.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It is the last positive thing I will say to the officials. I said I would start with something nice. I wanted to have a look, and I hope it was not raised in the interim while I was out, at the surplus public expenditure moneys, SPEM, account. It is memorably named. A lot of money has ended up in this and it attracts a negative interest rate. Paragraph 1.15 of the Exchequer financial...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That is the negative interest charged, sorry.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Is there €28 billion in there?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: This is why I should not be trusted with accounts. It is figure 1.6, yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: To cut a long story short, it is costing us money to keep this money in an account.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That is what I would have hoped. I did not like seeing that.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That situation is resolved, is what Mr. Hogan is telling me.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Finance Accounts 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 1 – Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2022
Chapter 2 – Reporting Ireland’s EU Transactions
Chapter 24 – Performance of the Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Chapter 25 – Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 Nov 2023)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: We have lost the money. We cannot do much about that but it has been resolved. A different issue was around debt relief payment. I welcome that we paid off a bunch of debt - IMF-administered funds for Somalia and Sudan. That kind of financing is something I very much approve of, but then we did it in the wrong way and we had to transfer moneys between central banks and the Department....

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