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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Well, UCC shaped me, for good or for bad. How much of the amount spent on professional fees was for legal advice and services? There seems to be a serious issue in UCC with regard to legal advice for staff issues and cases involving staff. In fact, I would argue that more money is being spent on that than in many of the other universities put together. What is going on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I appreciate that these are issues that predate the Professor O'Shea's presidency, to be fair. That said, the amount involved is extraordinary. It seems that a mallet is being used to crack a nut. I agree with the professor about the importance of mediation but the volume of fees being charged is extraordinary. It is almost the same as that spent by the other six universities all...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I understand that there are property transactions, the IMI and other issues but I am asking about the staff related issues. Why are there so many issues with staff?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: You are. We can see across all the institutions-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: It is obviously a question that the witnesses cannot answer comprehensively so I will just make a point and move on. I would point out that the legal fees relating to staff issues in UCC are considerably higher than anywhere else. In fact, I estimate that the spending on legal fees relating to staff issues at UCC equals that of the other six universities put together. There is a trend...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: My understanding is that a considerable amount of the professional fees are legal fees.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: It runs to millions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: The next issue I wish to raise is travel and subsistence. In that context, are staff at UCC allowed to have credit cards? If so, how are costs controlled and audited? The figure for travel and subsistence is €7.4 million. Which is more important - travel and subsistence for staff or books and journals? I spent years in the Boole Library and I would presume that the latter is more...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Does that not seem a bit odd?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: That is fine but-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: The train fare might work out better.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: How are the credit cards controlled?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: It seems extraordinary that €7.4 million was spent on travel and subsistence and only €2.2 million was spent on books and journals. For a university, about which I am quite passionate, it seems extraordinary, but I accept what Mr. Collins said. Why did the accounts not distinguish between staff and travel costs funded by research funding and staff and travel costs funded by...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Could Mr. Collins provide us with that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: I suggest that the university finds a way of providing that in its accounts in future because it is important. With regard to retired staff who have been brought back on occasion to do some work, I understand this was in breach of the university's employment control framework, ECF, and that a considerable number of individuals are contractually entitled to be paid for the work they did....

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Have there been cases where staff who have come back to work have exceeded the time threshold they are allowed to work and who have now be contractually owed money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: As in that they have not been paid yet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Collins might check that and come back to me on it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: Regarding Cork Savings Bank on Lapps Quay, Cork City Council purchased it in 2014 for €600,000 and University College Cork purchased it for €1.42 million from the council in 2016. There was €800,000 of a difference in the purchase price in less than two years. How is that justified?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
UCC: Financial Statements 2013-2014
(30 Mar 2017)

Alan Kelly: The university is happy with that.

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