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Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Would the cost to the Taoiseach's Department amount to much?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: So the ones that we can really stand over are the costs here before us, amounting to €107 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: I still hope we learnt lessons as to how such inquiries are put in place and monitored and controlled, because €107 million is a huge amount of money.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Deputy Deasy raised an issue about Garda inquiries and the need to apply some urgency in that regard. In recent times, when an issue has arisen, for example, in respect of the Health Service Executive, there has been a tendency to refer it to the Garda for inquiry. This happened in respect of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report into matters relating to the HSE and the management of...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: I made it having borne all those circumstances in mind. It is important we try to resolve the matter.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: In terms of station closures and associated savings, I echo the point made by Deputies Deasy, Ross and others that there is great concern in rural areas about the carrying of firearms, violent raids on commercial premises and assaults on people in their private homes. It is frightening. I encourage the Garda to do whatever is necessary, wherever these raids have peaked, to provide...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Separately, we did a report on wards of court and made recommendations regarding the Comptroller and Auditor General being able to audit the fund and its performance. I know this is properly a matter for the Courts Service, but our report goes to the Minister for Justice and Equality. Will Mr. Waters comment on or give the committee an idea of when it will receive a reply to that report?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Will Mr. Waters comment on subhead 5.2 in the 2014 accounts, entitled "Other remuneration arrangements", where a total of €35,900 was paid to several retired civil servants who were in receipt of civil service pensions in 2014? In addition, €20,716 was paid to four former public servants, and €198,838 to six former members of the Judiciary who were engaged in various...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: No, but they come back because they have the experience. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Then they are given a small sum.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: What does the other figure relate to, the total amount of €1.226 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: In total that costs the State €1.226 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: In terms of judges' expenses, I saw the report in the newspaper and I thought it was a significant sum. It said that judges claimed €1 million in expenses in six months of this year.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: It is not Mr. Waters' Vote?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: The other matters I raised come out of the Courts Service Vote as well.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Okay, we can deal with that separately.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Not to rehash the argument, but the Department is preparing to put its hand into the pocket of the employee and take it back-----

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: -----and it lets the local authorities off with a fortune. That is the problem the citizen has with the State. Citizens feel beaten up by the fact that big institutions can get away with murder but they seem to have to pay for everything. Governments, one after the other, continue to beat people up and take money out of their pockets when the other matter still pertains not only in term of...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Deputy Costello will assist me greatly in my fight to retain my seat.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Is it agreed to dispose of Vote 21, Vote 24 and Chapter 9? Agreed. I thank Mr. Waters and his officials. I echo what Deputy Ross said in complimenting Mr. Waters, but I am not sure whether he should rush to put that on his CV. I would leave it off for the moment. It probably comes with a health warning.

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