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Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: I can understand the contract arrangements for servicing equipment such as this. One is locked into a supplier as part of the original deal. However, it is not all explained under the heading. There are purchases which account for a total of €2.2 million. There are four urgent purchases which came to a figure of €306,000. Within the sum of €7.9 million, there are...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Donnellan saying that within that €7.9 million figure, there is only room for manoeuvre on less than €3 million of it?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: There were four urgent purchases with a total value of €306,000. Will Mr. Donnellan give me an example of an urgent purchase?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: There were ten proprietary purchases which accounted for a total of €2.2 million. What were they?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Five existing contracts were extended and rolled over. I can understand the process of rollover, but why?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: While the State was trumpeting new procurement systems as a great deal, we have come across significant breaches of the procurement process in several Departments, including the Irish Prison Service. What Mr. Donnellan is saying is that the service simply did not have the staff to ensure it could comply with the new procurement rules.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Does the Irish Prison Service now have someone to monitor procurement?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: In the accounts there is a paragraph that sets out all of the figures. I want to get an understanding of each of these figures, including the €3.3 million which includes five contracts which were extended and rolled over. I want to get a flavour of what actually is going on and why this happened. Will Mr. Donnellan do that?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Will Mr. Waters remind us of the ongoing tribunals and their cost in 2014 and 2015?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: That is €5.16 million in total.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: It might be easier if we take it from the top. The Morris tribunal is first.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: That is running at €66 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: So it may not go as high as €80 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: At the moment the cost is €66.3 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: I understand what it was about. The Smithwick tribunal is next.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Does Mr. Waters think it will end at €14.2 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: So it is almost €20 million as we speak-----

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: -----with possible third-party costs still to come in.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: Further costs.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John McGuinness: The total is approximately €20 million at the moment. Mr. Waters dealt with location of victims. That is €5.6 million. The other commission of investigation amounts to €2.783 million.

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