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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: I could be wrong but I am giving Mr. Griffin my opinion. I have watched him interact with other members of the committee. We are putting reasonable questions and we expect reasonable responses. Mr. Griffin said it would have been preferable if the former Minister had been accompanied by officials but he was not accompanied by them. Can I surmise from this that Mr. Griffin believes it was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: Did it contaminate the process?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: There is a problem with the perception of either conflicts of interest or that we have a process now that people feel is a bit of a mess. We have a single bidder for whatever reason. We have already talked through that and ended up in that situation. A former Minister had several engagements and meetings with somebody closely associated with this single bidder that was left in the race....

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: This is based on what?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes, but based on what? Am I to take it that this is based on evidence from the Minister and Mr. McCourt?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: We will have to leave that issue there for the moment. Mr. Griffin has given his opinion, in fairness, which I accept. On-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: The problem with that is - I am not saying that I in any way disbelieve the former Minister, that is not the point - as Mr. Griffin very well knows, that when one puts oneself in a position where one has several engagements, several dinners and meetings with a bidder, when there is a live process under way, it is the perception that is the problem. We will never know what was or was not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: He is removed from the process because the Taoiseach made it impossible for him to stay in the process. Let us be frank about it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: I am talking reality. My final question is on Enet. Mr. Griffin spoke earlier about the Irish Infrastructure Fund, IIF, having a share in Enet. Does it own it completely or what is the composition?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: That is 100% shareholding.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: I will come back later as others may want to come in and I have another set of questions on RTÉ and on a few other areas which I will come back to. I ask the Chairman to put me on the list and I thank Mr. Griffin for his responses.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: Can we have an hour and a half?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: I wish to come back to the broadband issue and the tendering process. The Chairman took a lot of time and asked many questions that I was going to ask. Some of the responses were helpful. I had a copy of the KPMG analysis which I imagine informed the decision to go with the gap funding model. Was it KPMG alone who undertook it or were there other analyses undertaken? Were there other...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Griffin have this analysis in document form? In other words, were people asked to do a job of work, at the end of which there was a report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: There is documentation that went to the Minister.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: Can that documentation be forwarded to the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: But not at the moment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: When was the KPMG report produced?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: What year would it have been produced?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

David Cullinane: That is what I thought. We have, with the Comptroller and Auditor General, looked at procurement or tendering processes in lots of areas, whether they involved a Department or a board, and best practice is always where decision makers have all of the information at their disposal.

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