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Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I thank the Comptroller and Auditor General. I am conscious of that as well but, following today's hearing, I am doubly convinced that one issue is the model upon which the OGP bases its work, that is, price only, versus the most economically advantageous, but another that is important is how the OGP analyses its own target and performance. If we do not get a piece of work done fairly...

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur romhaibh go léir. Mr. Watt said in respect of the audit committees in State bodies that the Department will circulate an updated code of practice in coming weeks. When does he expect it to be in place?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: How long will that be?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I thank Mr. Watt. Presumably, the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General is the basis on which the code will be drafted. I appreciate the need for consultation but the outside audit was done by his office.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I hope it will incorporate all of them. What about the recommendation for a self-assessment checklist? Will the Department adopt that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: It seems to be sensible. Will that be done in conjunction with the drafting of the new code?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Value for money reviews and so on are now a standard part of the vocabulary and I will come to procurement issues shortly, which is where the focus of my questioning will be. I have a separate question, however, which may be more appropriate to the Minister. We debated in committee the Comprehensive Expenditure Report 2015-2017. It struck me in parts as a work of fiction. For instance,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I understand the thinking, which I think is really smart.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is interesting but it was not my question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Watt is becoming a politician.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Am I to take it that this review will feed into a process as envisaged? I do not have the detail.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I presume Department of Public Expenditure and Reform officials do all this work.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I do not think figures within it are credible. Nonetheless-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Absolutely. Hopefully we might have the numbers at some stage to get some changes in that. Does Mr. Watt have the full list of State bodies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I will submit a question to Mr. Watt again on State bodies and boards. To my astonishment a number of years ago I discovered that the Department did not have a full list, but Mr. Watt has the full list now.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: I come to the issue of procurement. We have had testimony today from the Small Firms Association and the Irish Schools Art Supply Federation in respect of the operation of the Office of Government Procurement and the procurement regime in play at the moment. I know that Mr. Watt and Mr. Quinn are familiar with some of the dilemmas that face small and medium-sized enterprises with a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: Willingness to learn is relevant here because it is a new office. Rather than the Secretary General coming into a committee meeting and responding to questions, does that mean that he is willing to have a deeper engagement on these issues?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

Mary Lou McDonald: It is not the taxpayers' interest either that jobs are lost in small firms and micro-enterprises, perhaps in rural areas. As the Department calculates what is in the best interests of the State and the taxpayer, which is entirely legitimate, there must be a calculation also of potential offsetting measures such as the loss of jobs, which is costly. Having additional people on the live...

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