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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I will ask Deputy O'Donnell to leave the meeting. He is out of time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Deputy O'Donnell and Senator Coghlan will share time and have 12 minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Do you have question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Thank you.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Can Mr. MacSharry cite a specific instance where the public interest directors forced or encouraged a consensus?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I will ask the question again. Can Mr. MacSharry cite a specific motion, proposal or concept put forward at Permanent TSB which came from the public interest directors and was implemented by vote or overwhelming consensus?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Be specific.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Just give me one.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: What I am asking Mr. MacSharry is - I am trying to model this before other questioners come in - about his role. The bank would certainly have been meeting with the Central Bank and other agencies. In Mr. MacSharry's specific capacity as a public interest director - I am putting the same question to Ms Hayes - has he reported to the Minister for Finance, the Department of Finance or the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: In terms of being general directors.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: When Mr. Richard Boucher of the Bank of Ireland appeared before this committee a couple of months ago, a question was put to him as to what distinguished a public interest director from any other director on the board. Mr. Boucher's response was that they are not elected. That is the only difference. Under company law, every director of the bank has the same obligation, which is to serve...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I have the terms of a non-executive director here in front of me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: I am saying that there is no difference. According to Mr. Richie Boucher there is no difference-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: -----in company law between them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Under company law there is no difference in terms of your duty of care, as I understand it. I can read into the record what the role of a non-executive director is for Mr. MacSharry. In terms of being a standard director, however, as I understand it-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Therefore, in that instance your master is the bank, not the public interest, because of company law.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: In this case, the shareholder.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Has there been an occasion during Mr. MacSharry's period when a vote was taken on the board where he, as a public interest director, had a particular position - whether it was to do with mortgage interest rates, and this morning we have seen a bank announcing an adjustment to its credit card rate - and pushed a public interest issue that has resulted in a vote?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Were those views every pushed to a vote?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Ciarán Lynch: Okay.

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