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Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The witnesses have been advised that they do not have the same level of privilege by not being on campus. It is the choice of the witnesses whether they should be on campus or not. That is the choice of the witness. However, it is a fair question for the Deputy to ask.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I have a couple of questions for Dr. Wall. In his opening statement, he said the HEA also had responsibility for the effective accountability and oversight of governance in HEA-funded higher institutions and that it takes the responsibility very seriously. Deputy Munster dealt with some of this. One of the authority's main functions is as the funding body for the different institutions. In...

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: We will take it that is the case. UL submitted an application for approval for the opera house site to the HEA in 2019. In fact, it submitted it three days before it moved to the Dunnes Stores site. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: The HEA's role seems to be just to write the cheque. Before I write a cheque, which would be for a much smaller sum, I want to know where the money-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I ask Dr. Wall to bear with me for a second. UL had submitted a detailed plan to the HEA for the opera house site jut three days before the decision was made. Can he confirm that is correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Suddenly, three days later this was changed. Is Dr. Wall aware that this came before the governance board three days after UL submitted the application to the HEA? I am reliably informed that the board was told the deal had to be done by that evening. It appears that most members of the board were not aware of the Dunnes Stores site. As far as they were concerned, they had assembled to...

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: When he meets with the officials from UL next Monday, will he put this to them?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Sorry-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Just a moment. What Dr. Wall just said about getting a letter is incredible. This university received €47 million in grants and had a deficit of €4 million that year. There were clearly issues arising from a range of matters and the HEA does this on the basis of a letter. Surely to God, as------

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Wait until I put the question, please.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I want to ask Dr. Wall the question.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Why would the HEA not require a detailed plan and a full development of costs for any site before writing the cheque? I find it incredible that the HEA would deal with things in such a casual manner. This is not buying sweets at the corner shop. This is millions of euro of precious taxpayers' money, which seems to be thrown around like confetti on the basis of letters received.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: As Deputy Munster has extracted from you-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Did you raise questions?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Did anyone from the HEA ask why UL was changing horses halfway through the race? It ditched the opera house-----

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Will Dr. Wall put that question to UL and come back to us?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: Please come back to me with a note on that. I would love to know its explanation for why that happened in a three-day period and why members of the governance board were brought in that morning and faced with having to make a decision by that evening. Obviously I was not sitting at that meeting myself - it would be an interesting place to be a fly on the wall - but I am reliably informed...

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: I have one or two other questions on the financial statements from 2019, specifically board members using expenses. There were two interesting elements. One is that a board member is based in the US. Would that member attend board meetings?

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: That person is still on the board.

Public Accounts Committee: Higher Education Authority: Financial Statements 2019 (1 Jul 2021)

Brian Stanley: What kind of expertise does the member have?

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