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Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Under the scheme as it operates, it is in Mr. McGuire’s interest to have a high volume of sales because that would increase the amount of funding received from the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: To a limit, obviously, in terms of the fund that is available.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: The money received from the Department of Justice and Equality goes into the total Rehab pot and is not designated for a particular front-line service.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: What service is that?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Being applied to administrative costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Mr. McGuire will have seen the audit from 2012 by the Department. It claimed that money was-----

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Did it never occur to Mr. McGuire that IT costs might be administration costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: It is all an administrative cost. Is it good enough to say the Department did not define administration and that Rehab did not know what it was?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Mr. McGuire had a problem that was carried out by the Department in 2012. He does not accept it.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Rehab did not respond to it.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Perhaps the Department wants to respond on this. Ms Kerins responded to it in a letter. Is the response Ms Kerins talks about the response in question? The Department stated, in respect of the audit report, that it should be noted that it was not possible to fully conclude the internal audit process as the management response to the audit findings and recommendations sought from Rehab as a...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank everyone for attending today. The area I want to look at is the charitable lotteries scheme. I would like to get a rundown of that scheme and how it works in practice, and I will base some of my questions on the internal audit that was done by the Department of Justice and Equality in 2012. To be clear on how the scheme works, Rehab gets an amount of funding from the Department...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Let us focus on the scratch card because that is sold through newsagents-retailers. When we get a figure of €3.9 million in scratch cards sold, are they sold through newsagents?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: In return, does Rehab get matched funding from the Department based on that level of sales in newsagents?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: On the level of sales?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: The higher Rehab's level of sales, the more funding it will get from the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: I understand why the scheme is in place. Essentially, for nearly €4 million of sales, Rehab got approximately €4 million from the Department in 2011 which came across through that scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: But for the scratch card portion, would it have been approximately €3.9 million?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: It is almost equal funding. It is almost like-for-like funding with the scratch cards. If one sells-----

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Rehab had €3.9 million in sales of scratch cards, and what funding came across from the Department?

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