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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: I have a few questions just to wrap it up. Is the Tax Appeals Commission accessing the information that is on the Revenue site or is it on its own site? Under the new system taxpayers log in to the Revenue site to do PAYE or PRSI, or to submit an annual return online. They get a password but it is not on their personal computer at home; they are actually logging into the Revenue. Is the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is that separate from Revenue?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Mahony mentioned overtime restrictions. Who placed the restrictions on the overtime given that the Tax Appeals Commission's office is so busy and it cannot recruit staff? Who is saying staff cannot work overtime? Is it Mr. O'Mahony or-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Was it made by Mr. O'Mahony?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Given that the Tax Appeals Commission had the funds to pay overtime in 2016 and 2017, why did Mr. O'Mahony tell people the office would discourage overtime? There is no financial impediment to overtime. Why would he have discouraged overtime if it could have helped?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. O'Mahony being over-strict in his interpretations compared with other Departments on that one?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is the Tax Appeals Commission allowing any overtime this year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is there a need for overtime? If some staff were able to work overtime this year, would it help the Tax Appeals Commission's situation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: I accept there might be that issue. There are 5,000 cases in dispute and €1.6 billion in tax in dispute. There is a general understanding among the public that €1.6 billion in tax is due. That is not the case. The witnesses are now saying that in respect of an aspect of the tax that is not in dispute, there has been a payment on account. Everyone out there assumes there...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General's report is more than a year old. I am asking about the figure now.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: The refunds would also be paid by Revenue. The Tax Appeals Commission is a bit like the Social Welfare Appeals Office. It makes a decision and sends it back to Revenue to sort out the figure by saying, "Here's our decision; implement it." None of the money comes through its office. It is important that the public get that and it is on the public record that it is back to the Revenue....

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Of the 700 cases it disposed of last year, what was the amount of tax that was in dispute and what was assessed? Was it 80%, 70% or 60%? They are the kinds of figures we expect the witnesses to have.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: If the Tax Appeals Commission has sent 700 cases back to Revenue as having been concluded, surely Revenue can get the figure from its computer. It might show, for example that out of €200 million the settlement was €150 million. Do the witnesses understand my question? This is the sort of thing we need to know. How much went in and how much came out?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: I would call that a case withdrawn.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am drawing the parallel with social welfare. If a case goes to the appeals office and it is withdrawn at local level, it is no longer in the Tax Appeals Commission's system and not one of its live cases. There is probably a percentage of cases that came to the Tax Appeals Commission but were withdrawn and did not have to proceed. We are not looking for the withdrawn cases because the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Does he see the simple logic that the public would like to see the headline figures because-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will ask the Revenue about putting a system in place this afternoon. There can be no confidence given how poorly the Tax Appeals Commission is resourced. For us to know the system is working and for the public to have confidence in the system, people need to know these kinds of things. Does the Comptroller and Auditor General wish to make an observation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: Does the Revenue know all the cases that go to the Tax Appeals Commission?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 9 - Internal Controls in the Tax Appeals Commission
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission
(28 Jun 2018)

Seán Fleming: At a Tax Appeals Commission hearing, the Revenue makes its case and the taxpayer on the other side makes his or her case. Both sides make a case and we are familiar with that. I know there is a presumption that hearings will be held public. There was a significant dispute about confidentiality when the legislation was going through. How many hearings did the Tax Appeals Commission hold...

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