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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Hang on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Horan can say whatever he wants here; I want to deal with facts. I want to use Insurance Ireland's facts. Mr. Horan started off by saying he "disputed": does he dispute the fact that there have been 55,000 fewer claims and a 22% reduction between 2014 and 2017?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Just "Yes" or "No".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The value of awards and payouts has come down by 15%.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I know and I will get to that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. Horan answer the question? Where did motor premiums go between 2014 and 2017, when we had a 22% reduction in the number of claims and a 15% reduction in the value of claims?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Horan is making a claim. Let us back this up with fact. I call on Insurance Ireland to give me the average price of insurance for an insured motorised vehicle in 2014 and the average price for an insured vehicle in 2017. We do not have the 2018 data because they have not been published yet. I call on Mr. Horan to give me those two numbers to back up his claim that premiums have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I must interrupt here. I have asked Mr. Hassett to back up that claim as well. Is it not the case that the Insurance Ireland fact file gives the average price per insured vehicle and then gives the average price in 2017? Is it not the case that using those data we see an increase in premiums rather than a reduction? Again, we have the insurance industry suggesting that premiums peaked in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am taking about the annual report of Insurance Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am seeking clarity on this point. Is Insurance Ireland telling the committee that the average premium for an insured vehicle in the State decreased in 2017?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Insurance Ireland cannot tell us about individual figures but the organisation has the average across the industry.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Insurance Ireland has completely disputed that. It has disputed it with the Department of Finance in the context of the motor insurance group. It has suggested that the CSO collection of data is wrong. We all know that it uses only one subset of insurance. In any event, Insurance Ireland provides data to its European colleagues for the reporting they do across the motor insurance...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I agree on that point. We agree in terms of the-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I made the point — Mr. Horan does not dispute it — that the award level has actually been dropping over recent years.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: What is the cost of claim ratio now in the motor insurance sector in Ireland? Is there a figure for 2018?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Horan should just stick to 2018.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: It is 71%. Was the average in the European Union 75%?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: We had representatives of a number of insurance companies in. Is the delegation talking about figures for 2017 or 2018?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: We had representatives of a number of insurance companies, including AXA and Aviva, before us and I asked them all the questions about the claims ratio. They are saying the claims ratio is now 65%, which means that for every euro taken in, 65 cent is paid out in claims. It is a good indicator in respect of claims. The other part will be made up of either the industry's profits, which have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Dual Pricing for Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Nov 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Maybe if the insurance sector were not working as a cartel and if it were not engaging in price signalling, and if there were not a failure to share data with European competitors, in respect of which there are two investigations-----

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