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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Right.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: In your booklet then, Vol. 2, page 3, you see ... you see an e-mail there towards the end of 2007 in which you are included and the subject is a list of issues for the domestic standing group, again a meeting that's to be held very shortly, and if I just quote from the e-mail, it says, "Please find attached a list of issues that need further examination / clarification in order to facilitate...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: And then to quote that paragraph 3: Once an institution is insolvent the Central Bank cannot provide [emergency liquidity assistance] to the institution. In order for the institution to be assisted [Central Bank] would require ... some form of guarantee from the Government eg a letter of comfort. This would allow the [Central Bank] to treat the institution as illiquid, but solvent. So,...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: But-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: I think ... I'll put it to you Mr. Grimes, that any observer would see a situation being set up here by the Central Bank and the Department of Finance for a clear situation where a bank or a financial institution might be declared insolvent. Could you comment then on the emphasis that is given and I'll just give one more quote Chair ... going forward Vol. 1, page 101 and a scoping paper from...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: It's Vol. 1, page 101. I'll just quote as clearly as I can: It is very important to note that the CBFSAI [the Central Bank] is prohibited from providing [emergency liquidity assistance] to an insolvent institution. Therefore if there is any concern that a financial institution seeking ELA as insolvent, the [Central Bank] would not be in a position to provide liquidity support without the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes, I mean, that's clear ... that funding can be given to an institution that has liquidity problems but it's absolutely prohibited that funding would be given to an institution that's deemed to be insolvent.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Without a Government guarantee. But the question I put to you is: why does this theme keep emerging? Is ... would you ... is there a preparation here for a suspected insolvency that might be looming or might be seen to be in the pipeline?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay. Well, let's go forward then, if I may, to the ... September 2008. And I refer to Vol. 2, page 45, Chairman.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Vol. 2 of the core document, Tony Grimes, core documents, yes. Vol. 2, page 45.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes. And then you will see in page 46 and 47 handwritten minutes of a meeting, which is transcribed on page 45. Yes?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Can you tell us ... and you were an attendee at that meeting, which was in the period not too long before the actual guarantee was given. Can you tell us, what is the nature of that meeting, Mr. Grimes? One thing that would strike me on reading it is that it's ... seems to be a very, very high level ... the Taoiseach is in attendance, the Minister for Finance, the Secretary of the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Yes, well, the Governor had just resumed work-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: -----after a period of some illness, but ... but the chief executive officer of the National Treasury Management Agency. Would you agree that it's a very-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: -----high-level meeting?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: So can you tell us about that meeting please?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: Chairman, the minute we have here is from ... was it ... this was not an official meeting of the domestic standing group, it was-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: -----it was an informal meeting.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (27 May 2015)

Joe Higgins: So I think that the minute could then be put up. There is no prohibition, Central Bank-wise, on this.

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