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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Is Mr. McCarthy worried about legal proceedings being taken against the Department should the contract collapse and this project not go ahead because of delays that happened in the Department in the granting of certain licences?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: The Department has not reviewed the possibility of a legal challenge against it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Does anyone have the power to stop this project from happening, other than the four managers of the local authorities?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Consult?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: It has still to be adjudicated on at European level.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: They have not come back yet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: I will have to come back to Mr. McCarthy as my recollection from correspondence is that the Commission is going to come back to Dublin City Council on that point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: The Department will be the sanctioning authority for the project.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: If that comes back as a positive, the four city councils are free to go ahead without having to seek sanction from the Department. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Is Mr. McCarthy happy about this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: What does Mr. McCarthy say to the city manager when he says the rationale for the project remains? The rationale originally was that Dublin City Council would control all waste in the Dublin region. However, a court ruled that could not happen. What does Mr. McCarthy say when he has an engagement like that with the city manager?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: I understand that. It does not rest with the councillors, however, as, unfortunately, it is not their responsibility under the law these days. We have had a number of problems with the project, including cost overruns, time overruns, the conflict of interests case which I think is pending, an illegal procurement and a firm having to be dismissed in January, a court ruling on who could...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: What I hear from that is "It's not my problem."

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Is Mr. McCarthy aware that the manager of Dublin City Council expressed doubts about the viability of the project at a public meeting of the city council when he first came in? I understand the matter is not Mr. McCarthy's statutory responsibility and perhaps it is unfair to ask these questions. However, it is not the responsibility of councillors, as that responsibility has not been given...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: However, they cannot stop the incinerator project from going ahead. They cannot stop the four local authorities from proceeding. Mr. McCarthy referred to the local government audit service. We have sought powers to look into the local government fund. While the local government audit service is very good, the infrastructure is not in place and the powers have not been provided to allow...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Does Mr. McCarthy have worries about Dublin City Council or any of the four authorities that pursued the project at this expense, built nothing for a decade and are happy to continue with it after four very negative reports and problems at European level? In 12 to 16 months there will be another submission for a technical exercise on the capital costs in a public private partnership - not a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Mr. McCarthy and his officials are very welcome to the committee. Mr. McCarthy is probably aware that over the past three years this committee has been back and forth with his predecessor on the Poolbeg incinerator project. That is the issue I wish to address with Mr. McCarthy today. To date, about €108 million has been committed to that project over a ten-year period. The...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: Everyone who has looked at this project, from Europe to the Capita report and the local government audit services, has had a problem with it. The costs have now gone over €100 million but nothing has been built. It has been delayed for ten years. At what point will the Department look at this properly, given that it is the biggest local authority under the Department's remit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: I do not wish to cut across Mr. McCarthy but he talks about accountability and how the CEOs will consult with councillors. The responsibility rests with the managers, however, not with the councillors. That is because this is not a function for councillors but for the management. Mr. McCarthy is talking about a figure of just under €100 million but which will, by the end of July, be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 10 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Costs of Land Remediation
Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
(26 Jun 2014)

Eoghan Murphy: They said that to us. We know that one of the conflict of interest cases with Europe concerns how the tender was awarded to the initial consortium that came in with the local authority. There have been massive problems on the private financial side over a number of years, hence the delays. Departmental officials know that but still they have not intervened. We know that the value for...

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