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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: The fact that one does not agree with it is not what we are discussing here.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It is a commercial semi-State body that has commercial relationships, as I explained ad nauseam.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: As I said, it is unique inasmuch as it is in a commercial relationship with companies and in my judgment it would disadvantage them.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It has a commercial mandate to run an infrastructure-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It is not like the NRA. The NRA builds roads and does not contract the cars onto them-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: -----and regulate the cars. When it is done, it is done. However, there will not be a meeting of minds on this.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I have already restored the application of freedom of information to records held by service providers. What is intended by the amendment is already captured.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: This debate is becoming enveloped by extraneous matters. I understand there are mass meetings concerning EirGrid and a Seanad debate about that matter tonight. If this was not happening with respect to EirGrid, it would be somebody else with this level of focus. Freedom of information is a very important tool for the citizen and organisations in trying to get access to information. It is...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: That is one of the North-South bodies. If the Deputy had been listening, I gave a different rationale for its exemption.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Yes.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: No, this has gone-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It is absurd. If the Deputy wants to include the commercial semi-States under FOI legislation, it is a recipe to destroy them. It would certainly disadvantage them. That might be an objective some might have, but it is not one to which I subscribe. The Chairman is right, in that we are not discussing what happened 50 years ago when a unique body was set up for a purpose. Most of the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: This is not "Judge Judy" with me presenting a case to a jury and, in summation, the witness fails to give evidence. The bottom line is I have made a coherent case as to why the commercial semi-State companies should not be spancelled. The Deputy has a different view because he is not a supporter of the commercial semi-State bodies. That is a perfectly legitimate view to hold-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: -----but, please, do not come to conclusions on the presentation I have made. It was coherent for anyone who wanted to listen to it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Anti-State.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, in section 36(3).

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: There is a whole range of things and I will give the Deputy a comprehensive answer if I may. I have already given a comprehensive answer several times. These are not State agencies. They are commercial entities which happen to be owned by the State with a commercial mandate operating in a regulated environment. The notion that they are agencies or Departments of State doing a bit of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: They are commercial in every aspect.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It would impede their competitiveness and aid those in competition with them to their disadvantage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (12 Nov 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It goes well beyond commercial sensitivity. I am trying to give the Deputy a list. I think he understands the point.

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