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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: If the Deputy wishes to talk to the witnesses, that is fine. However, if he wishes to engage with the witnesses on the points he is making, which I would encourage him to do, I ask him to allow them some space for responses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Deputy Humphreys has spoken for 14 minutes. I will allow him to speak again later.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: If the Deputy has questions I ask him to prioritise them. If the question is important to him it should be raised at the beginning of his contribution.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Does the NTMA have a target each year? A trillion euros, even in today's terms, is quite a significant sum of money. Does the NTMA keep a measuring eye on how much of that money is actually going into the real economy?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I wish to move on to the issue of Irish Water, which is set out in the programme for Government and was mentioned by Mr. Corrigan in the context of NewERA. I understand there will be a bond issue for the establishment of Irish Water. What target has been set and how much does the NTMA expect to raise to fund Irish Water?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Mr. Corrigan hit the nail on the head when he said that the corporate structure of Irish Water is the main factor that will determine how the bonds will be raised. One of the proposals for Irish Water is that a free allowance will be issued to households and then people will be charged for water after that allowance is used. In terms of setting up a non-profit company, one provides...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: To go back to the question again, is the issue of the free allowance something that the NTMA has become cognisant of and has it been discussed with Bord Gáis and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I have raised the issue now and wish to know if Mr. Corrigan agrees that there is a difficulty with a pricing model that incorporates a free allowance but which, in the interests of running a business, then requires that the charge for any additional water is very high. Would the company not be better off simply charging an appropriate price for each litre used?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I thank Mr. Corrigan and invite Deputy McGrath to speak now. However, I ask that Mr. Corrigan would return later to the issue of the NPRF and SMEs, about which I would like to hear more.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I thank Mr. Corrigan. I propose that we have two question and answer sessions, one of 12 minutes and a second of eight minutes. Is that agreed? Agreed. The headline issue today is the €10 billion in bonds Mr. Corrigan has indicated will be raised this year. What yield or interest rate is being paid on the €2.5 billion that has been raised thus far?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Reports at the time indicated that the bond issue was oversubscribed, with demand for the bonds exceeding supply. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Given that demand could not be met, could an interest rate lower than 3.3% have been achieved?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The yield is somewhere between the yields available to France and Italy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: On the basis of Mr. Corrigan's comments, I assume there will be three further bond issues during the year. Will the sums involved be different or will each issue be for €2.5 billion?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The plan is to raise €10 billion in 2013. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: There will be a series of issues and the sums involved may vary. Given that an interest rate of less than 3.5% was achieved in the previous issue, has the NTMA set a target of achieving an interest rate of below 3.5% in the next bond issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Is there an expectation or hope the next issue will achieve an interest rate of less than 3.5%?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Reading over the submission, I note the National Treasury Management Agency has its fingers in many pies, as it were. It is involved in the NewERA project and the National Pensions Reserve Fund. According to recent media reports, it is starting a business venture, BlueBay Asset Management. A host of other operations also come within its remit, either directly or indirectly. What is the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The first figure refers to assets to hand, liabilities and everything else.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Overview of Economy and Funding Requirements: Discussion with NTMA (24 Jan 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: That leads me to my next question. How much of the substantial amount of money that moves between the NTMA and NAMA makes its way into the real economy?

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