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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I have a simple question on the Department of Health grant €14.156 billion for 2017, which is shown in chart 6 on page 123. I want Mr. Breslin to send the committee a note tying that figure to the Department's appropriation account because it is not possible for us to do so. I doubt the Comptroller and Auditor General could drag that figure back to the appropriation account. Perhaps...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is what I am asking. We have the 2016 appropriation accounts and 2017 financial statement. I am asking Mr. Breslin to do this for the-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: It would be useful for the committee to see the document. According to the second last paragraph on page 149 of the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, the Health Service Executive is not in a position to quantify the value of its expenditure on goods and services where the procedures employed do not comply with procurement guidelines. We have had a discussion on this. What...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Mulvany explain that? The HSE has a framework but does not know if it is being complied with. Is that what he is saying?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: In two years, committee members, whoever they are at that stage, will be able to check out the veracity of that and to whether it all happens. On page 157, it is unusual that the letter of determination from the Minister on how much could be spent in 2017 was received on 29 December 2017. Did I read that correctly? I do not know how any other organisation could wait until the last working...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: If everybody could open page 167, please. There has already been public comment on this matter. Without identifying the person who received €980,000 in 2017, will the witnesses talk me through this? The person is on pay of €220,000, which means some €760,000 was for back pay and arrears. This covers a period since 2010, which means the person was owed approximately...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Did the matter go before the Labour Relations Commission? Who adjudicated on it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: That individual is a very mild person to have waited for so long.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Mulvany is saying the HSE did not have to pay the person any interest or compensation for the late payment. More power to the person, although the figure does appear to be extraordinary. Page 168 refers to the treatment abroad scheme, which Deputy Aylward raised. Where is the cross-border initiative in these figures? I do not see it. How much did that initiative cost in the year?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Treatment abroad is a different scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Secretary General mentioned three schemes, namely, the treatment abroad scheme, the cross-border initiative and the E111. I ask Mr. Mulvany to send the committee a note providing a breakdown of expenditure on the three schemes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: On the same page, the cost of prompt payment interest and compensation is €869,000. What went wrong in that year that gave rise to this level of payment, which did not occur the previous year? Why did the HSE not pay its bills on time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Would that mean that, because the HSE had the derogation from the previous year, it effectively has a payment in there covering the previous year as well?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: What happened? It is inexcusable that €1 million in taxpayers' money was lost because people did not process payments. That sum would go a long way in the various areas mentioned, for example, the home help service. One cannot throw €1 million out the door just for not paying invoices in time. Do the witnesses take my point?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Mulvany to send the committee a detailed note as to how this arose. I can only go on the figure provided, which is €869,000. I do not know what figure Mr. Mulvany is referring to. On page 175, the report states the HSE carried out significant self-review of tax compliance in respect of 2016 with external tax assistance, which was completed in 2017. This, it adds,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Please speak slowly because I have not heard this before.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Do not tell me it is a tiny percentage. It is big money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Tax settlements are published. Is it correct that this settlement was not published because it was self-declared?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: A settlement of €2.194 million would be big news. This is a big settlement, even if Mr. Mulvany considers it small relative to the HSE budget. Why did the HSE underpay tax by such a large amount? That figure relates to 2016. What was the position in 2017?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

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