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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I do not need it. Send us the information.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Nurses were mentioned earlier. Will Mr. Connaghan give us the figure across the different headings?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: On the CervicalCheck issue, I do not understand why everyone is using the word "audit" all day. I would have thought it was very simple. If somebody is diagnosed with cervical cancer, the obvious thing to do would be to look at whatever information is on file in the system about that person. That should include any screening that was done. An audit is not needed. If somebody is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. The files can be in four or five different locations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes. I would not call that an audit, from a layman's point of view. I would simply call it getting the person's full medical information that is in the system. We have put a mystique around this by needing to do an audit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: In the chart given to the committee which was referred to this morning, the process starts with a national screening programme letter inviting women to participate in free cervical screening. At the bottom, it says a letter advising women of the availability of results and recommendation has also been sent to the GP. Are we saying that in all these cases the GP has something in his or her...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Why did we have this debate about who should inform the patient - the consultant, CervicalCheck or the GP if I am now being told that at all times the information was in the GPs' surgeries?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: I get the point. Mr. Breslin will be happy about the following. The last day he was here we asked about the introduction of the regulation for the Civil Liability (Amendment) Act, and during the course of the meeting, he gave me a timetable for the end of June-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: He just about got there. I saw in this morning's newspaper that it was signed. When did Mr. Breslin get the Minister to sign it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Committee of Public Accounts, I suspect, will take some credit for getting-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: It would be unreal talking about mandatory disclosure, if one had not already put the regulations in place.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Separate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes, under the Civil Liability (Amendment) Act. The presence of Mr. Breslin today is good and timely and it has helped. It was not the only reason but it helped to get it over the line. We will now have questions on the financial statements which is the reason the witnesses are here. I refer to Mr. Connaghan's opening statement. There was a deficit of €139 million being carried...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Do not say "in effect". I am looking for a black and white answer. The reason I ask is that somebody told me when the Estimate was being discussed in the Dáil that this issue came up and there was a reference to not having the audited accounts for 2017 to finalise that figure. Is there discretion on this as to whether it is the first charge? The legislation seems to be quite clear....

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: In other words, the service plan for 2018 would not have taken the first charge into account because the HSE did not have its audited accounts done when it was doing its service plan for 2018.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: What is the figure for the first charge in the service plan agreed for 2018?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Mulvany is starting to wobble. On the one hand, it is a first charge but now it is subject to discussion, seven months into the year. Is the first charge not negotiable? Why is that figure not in the HSE's service plan? Mr. Mulvany said there was no figure in the service plan for the first charge. I thought this was meant to be a clear issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes, I can see it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: This is from the previous year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Seán Fleming: In other words, the HSE is down €140 million before it starts-----

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