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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Chapter 7 - Oversight of Funding for the European Capital of Culture 2020
(25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: I invite Ms Licken to make her opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Chapter 7 - Oversight of Funding for the European Capital of Culture 2020
(25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: I thank Ms Licken. Her Department covers a wide range of issues and areas. I have some questions. Focusing on RTÉ, and looking at its accounts, that organisation has run a deficit for six consecutive years. RTÉ's income has reduced by €100 million in the same period, while costs have increased by €30 million. Land was sold in the last year as well. In addition,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Chapter 7 - Oversight of Funding for the European Capital of Culture 2020
(25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: Ms Licken is the Accounting Officer for the Department, and we understand that RTÉ is an independent commercial semi-State organisation, but a large part of its funding comes through the Department. Ms Licken outlined those figures in the documents she sent to us for today's meeting. Is she concerned now, however, at the financial state of RTÉ? I ask that because the situation...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Chapter 7 - Oversight of Funding for the European Capital of Culture 2020
(25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: I understand that. An internal memo in Ms Licken's Department earlier in the year, however, referred to the finances of RTÉ as not being "sustainable" and that they "were undermining its capacity" to perform its role. Can Ms Licken confirm if that is accurate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Chapter 7 - Oversight of Funding for the European Capital of Culture 2020
(25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: Has RTÉ requested additional funding?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Chapter 7 - Oversight of Funding for the European Capital of Culture 2020
(25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: Thank you. I do not doubt the importance of public sector broadcasting and, personally, I am a great supporter of it. I agree with your comment that it is important to have that in a democracy. The lead questioner for the committee today is Deputy Sherlock, who has 15 minutes. He will be followed by Deputy Catherine Murphy. All other members will have ten minutes each.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: The public business before us this afternoon is as follows: minutes, accounts, financial statements, correspondence, work programme and any other business. Before continuing with our agenda, I propose that we briefly go into private session to deal with some housekeeping matters before we resume in public session. Is that agreed to? Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: The first item is the minutes of our 18 November meeting, which have been circulated. Do members wish to raise any issues regarding the minutes? Are they agreed? Agreed. I thank members. As usual, they will be published on the committee's web page. The next item is accounts and financial statements. Three sets our accounts and financial statements were laid before the Dáil...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: As there are no other questions, can we agree to note the accounts and statements? Agreed. As usual, the listing of accounts and financial statements will be published as part of our minutes. Our third item is correspondence. As previously agreed, items that were not flagged for discussion for this meeting will continue to be dealt with in accordance with the proposed actions that have...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: I suggest that along with looking for that information from the Department, we ask for a breakdown by different sectors, like construction and couriers, for example. The issue with self-employment or misclassification as self-employment is that it may now be operating across other sectors on foot of that judgment back in 1997.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: I suggest we agree to look for that breakdown as well, along with the clarificatory question Deputy Carthy has for Revenue on whether relevant documents simply do not exist or are not available to it. I note there are a number of statements attached to the letter. We will go through them. Appendix 1 states: By way of background, it is important to note that PAYE is not a tax, but a...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: My understanding from the meeting with representatives of the Department is that there is an electronic system and the Department is going to upgrade it. It does not have a full electronic payroll system. Is that correct? In the correspondence, it is mentioned that a technical solution has been identified and is being assessed. I am trying to remember that meeting. I know Deputy Devlin...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: Is Deputy Murphy okay with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: We can ask for a clarification in relation to the last sentence in which the Department leaves the matter open-ended and states that the option will be available to use the service by the third quarter of next year. It could be interpreted a number of ways. We can ask why there will be an option and not a uniform electronic system within the Department. We can also ask when the Department...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: We can get clarification on this. My understanding is that it pays rent or an annual fee for the infrastructure. It could be a fee for the 25 years-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: -----of €25 per pole. As the Deputy will know, Eir has been replacing many of the poles in the past two years in order to get ready for this. We can ask whether NBI carries a cost for replacing some of the existing infrastructure or upgrading it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: Like the Deputy, I was surprised that only 12% of the project will be new build. That was a bit of an eye-catcher. The other question that arises out of it is the annual cost for rent of existing infrastructure each year over the next 25 years. Is it being done as a cumulative cost over that period? If only 12% is going on new build, what is the €2.7 billion going on? How much of...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: Does Deputy Catherine Murphy want to come back in now?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: I will let Deputy Carthy back in and then come back to Deputy Catherine Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (25 Nov 2021)

Brian Stanley: It has stated that those 679 primary schools will be done by the end of 2022.

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